"You did not choose Me, but I chose you..." Christ told His disciples in this verse. It seems to be pretty clear -- God chooses who will believe in Him. Our choosing Christ is not the reason God chose us. God choosing us first is the reason that we chose Him. Thus, salvation is entirely a work of God and it is God's sovereign, free choice of whom to save.
However, many objections can be raised against this interpretation. They are good ones, so investigating them will make us more familiar with the thought of the passage.
It seems that the best objection would be that since Christ is talking to His twelve original disciples, it is only them that He chose. For every other person, God leaves it up to them to decide for themselves if they will be believe. In other words, Jesus' disciples were chosen be cause of their important place in God's plan, but He doesn't deal that way with everyone.
I do not think that interpretation works for several reasons. First, there are many other statements Christ makes in this context that seem to apply to all Christians, not just the disciples. If the rest of what Christ said in this passage applies to every Christian, it would seem strange to say that His words "You did not chose Me, but I chose you" do not apply to every Christian.
For example, in the very next verse Christ says "This I command you, that you love one another." Sure, Jesus was only physically speaking to His disciples at this point. But clearly His command nonetheless applies to all Christians, not just some! In verse 26 Jesus says that He will send the Holy Spirit. Clearly this applies to all Christians as well. In verse 14, Jesus says "You are my friends, if you do what I command you." This also applies to all Christians.
Perhaps the best evidence is in verse 16 itself. Let's look at the whole verse: "You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in my name, He may give to you." Christ's choosing and appointing disciples seems to be the ground of their bearing lasting fruit and the ground of God answering every prayer that is prayed in Christ's name. Does every Christian have the privilege of having their prayers answered in Christ's name (see 14:12-14)? If every Christian does have this privilege -- and they do -- it seems that every Christian must have the same ground of this privilege--predestination. But in the very least, it does not make sense to interpret the last part of this verse ("God will answer your prayers") as applying to all Christians, but the first part ("I chose you") only to the disciples.
To all of this, there is perhaps one more objection. A person may say, "Look at the verse again (v. 15). It doesn't say that they were chosen for salvation, just that they were chosen to bear fruit. Therefore it was only an election to service, not salvation." In other words, could the verse simply teaches that God elects the main people who will serve in His plan -- such as the disciples -- and since not everyone is a main player, not everyone is chosen like the disciples? This is a good question.
In response, I would first ask how God could choose a person to serve Him without first choosing to save the person. Doesn't a choice to service imply a choice to salvation? So we are still dealing with salvation. Therefore I would next refer back to our previous discussion on how this verse must refer to all Christians, not just the eleven disciples disciples (Judas was not present in this chapter because he had left in chapter 13 to betray Christ). Furthermore, I don't think that the "service" mentioned in this verse is anything other than daily Christian living and obedience--which all Christians are commanded to do. This verse is not speaking of special service. All Christians are to "go and bear fruit" and to bear fruit "that remains, that whatever you ask the Father in [Christ's] name, He may give to you." Therefore there is still no reason to apply this verse simply to the disciples but not to all Christians.
Investigating the passage further, I think it becomes even more clear that God first chooses us. In verse 19 Jesus tells us where He chose us from. He did not choose us out of the "vast majority of those who are seeking God." He did not choose people who were first inclined to Him. He did not choose people who had already chosen Him. No, He says that "I chose you out of the world." The world is described in this passage as being against God and hating Him. "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" (vv. 18-19).
Very simply, all people are by nature haters of God and at war with Him. No one in the world would therefore ever seek God on their own. But God, in His mercy, chooses people out of this world to be saved. Those who are "seeking" God are perhaps better described as people who are being drawn by God to Himself. God must cause a person to seek Him. And He must choose a person before they will ever believe.
Many other passages in John confirm this interpretation that God chooses who is saved. See 5:21; 6:37-40, 44, 65; 8:47; 10:26; 18:37.
One last point. For the sake of argument, let's concede for a moment that verse 16 does simply refer to Christ's disciples, and not every Christian. This still implies God's sovereignty over salvation. Why? Since Christ says "I chose you out of the world" it seems clear that the disciples would not have chosen Him at all unless He had first chosen them (He didn't choose them out of those who already loved Him, but out of the world). But if Christ was able to choose His disciples out of the world and bring them to faith, couldn't He do it for anyone? If He can do it for anyone, why is everyone not saved? It must be because He has chosen not to overcome everyone's rebellion. To say that "God doesn't want to violate anyone's freedom" does not solve the issue, unless you want to hold that the disciples had their freedom violated by virtue of the fact that Christ first chose them. So it seems that Christ caused His disciples to irresistably choose Him without violating their wills. If He can do this with them, then He can do it with anyone. Thus, even if verse 16 applied only to His disciples, it would still entail that Christ has chosen to leave some people in their sins; He would still be sovereign over salvation. The only other alternative to this would be to say that Christ chose His disciples because He knew they would accept His choice, which of course goes against His words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" as well as His statement "I chose you out of the world."
In conclusion, it seems clear that John 15:16 applies to all Christians. Therefore, Christians can rest in and take joy in the encouragement that Christ's decision is the foundation of our faith, not our decision (see John 1:13). Christ's love is a powerful, strong, trustworthy love that cannot fail. He loves each individual Christian with this awesome love (cf. John 13:1). The statement that "God will love you straight to hell (in order to preserve your "free-will")" is just not true. God's love saves. It causes you to willingly come to Him. Finally, we can take encouragement that if Christ has chosen us, we will bear fruit.
*** Hummm...I remember a ways back Donna Professed she is a Calvinist...I could be mis-taken...but I do not believe I am...:rolleyes:...Anywho...to the question...Are All Christians Chosen?...NO !!!...Why ???...because there are some people that Profess to be Christians and they are NOT...it is a TAG name they use...and its really sad because they are Missing out on a Real Relationship with Jesus...and thats a Truth...Then there are Christians that are Called by GOD...and Let us NOT Forget the Elect...ya know...the Ones that are Sealed by Accepting Christ Jesus...the ones that are Doers of the WORD and Just Hearers...SOooo...NO !!!...not ALL Christians are Chosen...Be Blessed...xo
Deu 7:6-8 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 10:14-15 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Isa 43:20-21 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 9:10-24 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 11:5-7 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:11-12 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Donna Those are all scriptures that reformation theology has taken hundreds of years to twist and rearrange to elevate their own minds exalting themselves against the knowledge of God, which the word of God says to cast down.
Faith is not a respecter of persons.
Love is not a respecter of persons
Hope is not a respecter of persons.
Do you realize those people try to seduce mankind into believing the scriptures they have twisted are true, and of course ignoring what the bible teaches plain as day on the subject, you have to have hardened your heart to the truth to not see it.
The gospel to the lost is simply this:
Mk 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 � For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Two witnesses is the bible pattern to establish a teaching and here it is the word of faith for the lost.
Anything contrary to this simple truth is nothing but unbelief, and another doctrine, not of the word of God.
"you know Pj i don't even know what Calvinism is, i will have to look into it"
Interesting statement considering there was a thread some time ago, "Arminianism vs. Calvinism", in which the quoted above person laid out the differences concerning Calvinism's TULIP vs the beliefs of the Arminian, not to mention the many articles and statements defending Calvinism. :rolleyes:
Deu 7:6-8 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 10:14-15 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Isa 43:20-21 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 9:10-24 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 11:5-7 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:11-12 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
