is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 23 Jan, 2012 01:01 PM
Within the Scriptures? Seriously, I was just pondering about the wonders of our Lord and it suddenly dawned on me.
The Scriptures really don't show a hierarchy within the Godhead anywhere in the Scriptures of the three essences with the exception of Jesus leaving all of His majesty, honor, authority, and power on the throne to become a man and be subject to the Father. But other than that part of the Scriptures ALL THREE ARE EQUAL in power and authority from one another.
I honestly think that the only ones who separate the "authority" between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is mankind because we tend to put a "label" on something in order to make it easier to understand it on our human terms.
What do you think? Is there such a thing as a hierarchy between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures? If so, then please present the Scriptures to show it so that we may all learn from it.
By the way, this is purely for discussion purposes and not to bash anyone's knowledge of anything here. So the Phorum Pharisitically minded people please be peaceable or stay out of the topic.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:11 PM
GodsJude, Good verses. They still don't show a hierarchy but they are good ones to show the unity and equality of God's one-ness in authority though.
By the way, what time can you get here by? I'm about to cook now but if you give me a good time frame then I'll make sure you got some nice warm pasta when you walk in the door. lol
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:18 PM
ETcallhome Posted: Agaepton, you keep going around in circles trying to prove somethings that the meaning of the word GODHEAD HAS ALREADY stated and proven, that God's divine nature and HEADSHIP of His OWN Hierarchy and the Trinity. Spiritual common sense tells us this throught the diet of who God has already shown Himself to be.
The word tells us who is head of the Godhead, and the diety of Jesus as being God Himself, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the beginning of the foudnation of the world according to Genesies.
So what's your spiritual insightful point? The word Godhead is only made mention of how many times in the Bible??... and your definition you have posted tell us of the divine meaning of the divine doiety of God? But the diety of Jesus Christ is mentioned thorughout the word of God from Genesise to Revelation.
All refernces in scripture are clearly implied for spiritual understanding of the divine nature and diety of God incarnated as Jesus, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spriit as being as I posted from our church's Statement of Faith, three personas ( personalities), with three different offices of work, YET THEY ARE STILL ONE IN DIVINE ORDER AND NATURE.
There is not much else to say if a person understands the diety of Jesus Christ and that He is God Himself incarnated...
ME: Honey, I don't think you even know what the heck I'm talking about much less your own statements. Do yourself a favor. BREATH and CALMLY READ THE TOPIC WITHOUT ANY PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS before you respond, sister. Because NOT ONCE DID I EVER IMPLY that Jesus is NOT GOD IN THE FLESH, sister. I don't know where the heck you are getting this stuff.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:31 PM
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
*** At this point in time I'd havta say so far no one has given clear scripture about the Hierarchy Within the Trinity...so I'd say Nope !!!...might change my mind though bein a women and ifin I find somethin in scripture...Since we are suppose to be like Christ Jesus...and He is GOD incarnate in the Flesh with the Holy Spirit with-in Him...then we are to Reflect that in all our comings and goings...like I said afor...its all bout LOVE...
and...Poo...you live in Illinois and I in Cali...will then brother in Christ...I'll Salute you when I set down to dinner and you Salute me when you be sittin down for dinner and will Break Bread and the Lord will be in the Middle of it All...what say ye ???...Amen ! Amen !!!....Be Blessed...xo
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:51 PM
I do think what agepton is trying to say is that we mistakenly look at Jesus and the Holy Spirit as supordanats to God the Father? Is that what you are saying?
I dont thing we think about it and consiously look at it that way but in our minds deep dpwn we think of God the Father as the leader or head of the trnity? Which with them being equal is not true they are differnt with differnt in their personalitys and the way that they work in the world and on us but they are all God and all equal in power and importance,
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:07 PM
Agapeton said: Elisha, thanks. See the way i see it, we see Jesus being a man and obeying the Father here on earth but we also see that Jesus is EQUAL to God the Father according to Phillipians 2:6 and THEN BECAME LOWLY by coming to earth and doing the work needed. But in essence they are the same and have the same authority. Now since Jesus is equal to the Father, then the Spirit, who has the same authority as Jesus,m is also equal in the Godhead. Now since Jesus gave us this authority to emulate to the world of the same community, then we too, are of the same authority and are not one greater than each other. With that being said, we should hold no rank over one or the other now. We are all kings and priests. No lower hierarchy there. Equal through and through. So now if we the Body are the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:23), then we too are to interact JUST LIKE THE GODHEAD. You agree?
Ella says: Agapeton,you're funny my love...C'mon now, READ what you have posted, NO we are NOT TO INTERACT AS THE GODHEAD, WHERE IS YOUR SCRIPTURE FOR THIS THOUGHT OF YOURS?... and there is no where in scripture that you can point out that we are told to be as such, you're TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES TO TRY TO PROVE YOUR POINT THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE BODY TO SUBMIT TO SPIRUTAL AUTHORITY OVER US, AS GOD HAS APPOINTED. Jesus NEVER COMSIDERED HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD, AND NOR DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT CONSIDER HIMSELF EQUAL TO JESUS OR GOD, BUT JESUS AND THE HOLT SPIRIT ARE SUBORDINATE TO GOD, EVEN THORUGH THEY ARE BOTH DIVINE IN NATURE AND DIETY GOD. I realize that's too heavey for you to undertsand otherwise you would have understand what I have posted on the other pages about diety, incarnated, anddivine nature, and would not have contiued gone around inc ircles repeating yourself about finding a scriptures that states there is no hierarchy in the Trinity., if you undertood these spiritual concepts.:zzzz:
Booo,
This is what Philippians says in full context of what you're have twisted out of context:Phillippians 2:5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death� even death on a cross! (Jesus humbled Hmself to the AUTHORYT OF GOD)
Ella says: Yes, We are the fullness of God thorugh Christ becasue we have ALL THREE GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT LVING ON THE INSIDE OF US, AS PAUL points out in Colossians You are trying to fit it into your thoughts of not obeying authority, and Its not working when you try to compare it to the Godhead and Trinity.. The Bible tells us that JESUS DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD in Philippians chapter 2, but in humility HUMBLED HIMSELF AS A SERVANT IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD NO I'm not all over the place darling, the problem is you are not grapsing the understanding of the diety and divine nature and the meaning of the words incarnated as to what they mean and refer to when it comes to the divine nature of God, as I posted.
And this is what Colossians says about the FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD: Colossians 2: 1 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
Spiritual Fullness in Christ IN THE GODHEAD IS THIS: WHICH YOU HAVE MISQUOATED AND MISUSED TO TRY AND GET YOUR REJECTION OF AUTHORITY ACROSS AS BEING SPIRITUAL AND OF GOD...
Verse 6. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that NO ONE takes you captive through HOLLOW AND DECPETIVE PHILOSOPHY, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form (GODHEAD), and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:26 PM
Elisha, Jesus and the HOly Spirit ARE SUBORDINATES TO GOD, Jesus now sits that the right hand of the Father, and when He returns again, He will continue to be in submission to God, and after He has cmpleted His work God will them take over. We are told that The Holy Spirit DOES NOT S[EAK OF HIMSelf he obeys what god tells hims to do. tHIS LETS US KNOW that the Holy Spirit is also in submuission to God, this is why it is so important to undertsand the doety and what it means abotu incarnation, and divine nature of God thorugh Jesus Christ.
Jeus walked the rth not speakign that He was hHis own boss, and authority but thet He was UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF GOD HIS FATHER.(Colossians 2:9) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
In John 13:16, Jesus himself said these things: "Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. (NKJV)
WE are told GOD EXALTED HIM, Jesus did exalt himself, and this lets us know that Jesus is subornated to God.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:47 PM
Yeah Ella I think your right, its really easy to confuse me if you all will check my pictures you will see that I am blonde:ROFL: I am easaly confused this is why I always say that we dont have to know a whole bunch to be saved I am saved and I have a deep love for the Lord and God wont let me be lead down the wrong road for too long he is faithful to straighten me out pretty quick. I was mostly trying to make sure I understood what he was trying to say and it was a good question, but the Lord is not trying to trick us into believing something that isnt true, the scriptures inply that Jesus is a subordant at least while he ws on earth as he said he came to do the will of the one that sent him, that implys that God sent him however he is no less important he is different but God the Father implys that God the Father is the Head as thats what Father implys just like the Daddy in a family is the leader, but I just get confused pretty easy probably not a good idea for me to listen to a whole lot of this kinda stuff cause I can get mixed up but when I do God brings me full circle right back to the truth
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:48 PM
elishabroadway Posted : I do think what agepton is trying to say is that we mistakenly look at Jesus and the Holy Spirit as supordanats to God the Father? Is that what you are saying?
DING! DING! DING!
ET Quotes: Agapeton said: Elisha, thanks. See the way i see it, we see Jesus being a man and obeying the Father here on earth but we also see that Jesus is EQUAL to God the Father according to Phillipians 2:6 and THEN BECAME LOWLY by coming to earth and doing the work needed. But in essence they are the same and have the same authority. Now since Jesus is equal to the Father, then the Spirit, who has the same authority as Jesus,m is also equal in the Godhead. Now since Jesus gave us this authority to emulate to the world of the same community, then we too, are of the same authority and are not one greater than each other. With that being said, we should hold no rank over one or the other now. We are all kings and priests. No lower hierarchy there. Equal through and through. So now if we the Body are the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:23), then we too are to interact JUST LIKE THE GODHEAD. You agree?
Ella says: Agapeton,you're funny my love...C'mon now, READ what you have posted, NO we are NOT TO INTERACT AS THE GODHEAD, WHERE IS YOUR SCRIPTURE FOR THIS THOUGHT OF YOURS?... and there is no where in scripture that you can point out that we are told to be as such, you're TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES TO TRY TO PROVE YOUR POINT THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE BODY TO SUBMIT TO SPIRUTAL AUTHORITY OVER US, AS GOD HAS APPOINTED. Jesus NEVER COMSIDERED HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD, AND NOR DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT CONSIDER HIMSELF EQUAL TO JESUS OR GOD, BUT JESUS AND THE HOLT SPIRIT ARE SUBORDINATE TO GOD, EVEN THORUGH THEY ARE BOTH DIVINE IN NATURE AND DIETY GOD. I realize that's too heavey for you to undertsand otherwise you would have understand what I have posted on the other pages about diety, incarnated, anddivine nature, and would not have contiued gone around inc ircles repeating yourself about finding a scriptures that states there is no hierarchy in the Trinity., if you undertood these spiritual concepts.
ME: Honey, you need to go to bed cause your eyes are cloudy. I can't believe you've been in the faith for so long and not once it dawned on you that Jesus IS EQUAL TO GOD THE FATHER? DO YOU EVEN HAVE SCRIPTURE TO PROVE IT? Talk about lost.
The Phillipians 2:5-6 verses clearly say that Jesus being in the form of god did not consider it thievery to be equal to God and took on a lowly form.
"Php 2:6 who, as he was in the likeness of God, deemed it no trespass to be the coequal of God;"
Php 2:6 10 who though he existed in the form of God11
did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped,
Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,
Php 2:6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Jesus NEVER COMSIDERED HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD, AND NOR DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT CONSIDER HIMSELF EQUAL TO JESUS OR GOD, BUT JESUS AND THE HOLT SPIRIT ARE SUBORDINATE TO GOD, EVEN THORUGH THEY ARE BOTH DIVINE IN NATURE AND DIETY GOD.
Show me Scripture dear. Still been waiting for you to show me this since i asked you first.
Honey, do yourself a favor and stop. Seriously, cause you are one HOT MESS. You seem to contend everything that is against your twisted view.
Even your the Colossians verses you used proved you wrong. HOW CAN THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY REST IN CHRIST IF HE IS NOT EQUAL WITH GOD THE FATHER, sister?
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:9 For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Talk about heresy...
I'm going to pray for your blind contentious spirit, sister cause you do nothing but try to contend and confound people by twisting what they said.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:56 PM
ETcallhome
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is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 04:26 PM
Elisha, Jesus and the HOly Spirit ARE SUBORDINATES TO GOD, Jesus now sits that the right hand of the Father, and when He returns again, He will continue to be in submission to God, and after He has cmpleted His work God will them take over. We are told that The Holy Spirit DOES NOT S[EAK OF HIMSelf he obeys what god tells hims to do. tHIS LETS US KNOW that the Holy Spirit is also in submuission to God, this is why it is so important to undertsand the doety and what it means abotu incarnation, and divine nature of God thorugh Jesus Christ.
ME: You are talking about Jesus' role on earth, sister. I'm talking about jesus' role in the GODHEAD BEFORE HE BECAME A MAN> JESUS WAS EQUAL TO GOD IN THE GODHEAD AND BECAME HUMBLE BY BECOMING A MAN. THAT IS THE WHOLE THRUST OF PHILLIPIANS IS ABOUT.
Jeus walked the rth not speakign that He was hHis own boss, and authority but thet He was UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF GOD HIS FATHER.(Colossians 2:9) For in Christ ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE DIETY LIVES IN BODILY form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
In John 13:16, Jesus himself said these things: "Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. (NKJV)
ME: YEAH! LOOK AT THE VERSE YOU PUT UP WITH JOHN 13:16! LOL! YOU ARE SLEEPY! EVEN THAT VERSE SAYS THAT THE SENDER AND THE SENT ARE EQUAL! LOOK AT THE VERSE!
NO ONE IS GREATER THAN THE OTHER.
I can't believe you don't see the obvious.
Where is your definitive verse showing there is a hierarchy within the godhead before Jesus coming to earth?
