Author	Thread: For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell?
dljrn04 View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 3 Mar, 2012 05:09 AM God imposed his wrath due unto, and Christ underwent the pains of hell for, A. either all the sins of all men, B. or all the sins of some men, C. or some sins of all men. If C, some sins of all men, then have all men some sins to answer for, and so shall no man be saved; for if God entered into judgment with us, though it were with all mankind for one sin, no flesh should be justified in his sight: �If the LORD should mark iniquities, who should stand?� Ps. cxxx. 2. We might all go to cast all that we have �to the moles and to the bats, to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty,� Isa. ii. 20, 21. If B, that is it which we affirm, that Christ in their stead and room Suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the world. If A, why then, are not all freed from the punishment of all their sins? You will say, �Because of their unbelief; they will not believe.� But this unbelief, is it a sin, or not? If not, why should they be punished for it? If it be, then Christ underwent the punishment due to it, or not. If so, then why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which he died from partaking of the fruit of his death? If he did not, then did he not die for all their sins. Let them choose which part they will." http://www.the-highway.com/Death_Owen.html Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 03:10 PM Just to clarify and I'm not sure how at this point you can still misrepresent the doctrines of grace this way...Calvinism doesn't teach that man cannot believe. That is a flat out lie. Calvinism teaches that God causes man to believe. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 03:29 PM Just to clarify and I'm not sure how at this point you can still misrepresent the doctrines of grace this way...Calvinism doesn't teach that man cannot believe. That is a flat out lie. Calvinism teaches that God causes man to believe. Calvinisms first lie man can not believe: Calvinism lie number two God cause man to believe. Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 4 Mar, 2012 03:40 PM Calvinism teaches that man cannot choose God while his nature is still in bondage to sin. It teaches that only God can change the heart. You think the heart change is of man. In other words, works salvation. Now, would you like to have a biblical discussion on these two issues you have presented? Posting John 3:16 does not refute the claim that man cannot choose God while enslaved to sin. It doesn't even discuss that issue. Neither does it discuss the issue of God causing man to choose Him, so posting John 3:16 would not be applicable here? Would you at least admit that? Post Reply
View Profile History	For Whom did Christ undergo the pains of hell? Posted : 5 Mar, 2012 02:43 AM Calvinism teaches that man cannot choose God while his nature is still in bondage to sin. It teaches that only God can change the heart. You think the heart change is of man. In other words, works salvation. Now, would you like to have a biblical discussion on these two issues you have presented? Posting John 3:16 does not refute the claim that man cannot choose God while enslaved to sin. It doesn't even discuss that issue. Neither does it discuss the issue of God causing man to choose Him, so posting John 3:16 would not be applicable here? Would you at least admit that? To those that hear the word of God and see the truth of a willing heart, Jn 3:16 is a billboard. Any statement against that fact is one of Gross unbelief. There is no where in scripture that says man can not believe, and there is a whole bible full of examples of those that believe. There is no bible faith without believing and the common practice of any Calvinist is to deny any examples of such. Post Reply

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