GraceUnderserved. Its actually quite simple. TimothyK asked about suicide. I replied to him and TBK attacked my beliefs. You see, TBK likes to quote scripture. But then again, so do snake handlers. The passages that TBK quoted from Luke, were not the words of Christ. When the word of the disciples contradict the words of Christ, Christ's words are the ones we are to follow.
1. Christ said that there is only one unpardonable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
2. God commanded us not to commit murder. That includes murder of yourself. So, while there is only one unpardonable sin, suicide is very close because there is a very slim chance the person could truly repent before death. However, virtually none repent...they simply dont have time. Once you are dead, it is over. You can not repent and ask for forgiveness.
Now, TBK could not wrap his mind around this. He could not admit the fact that he could be in error. Instead the fell back upon Biblical legalese and then proclaimed himself to be superior, not in so many words, but in his implication that my theology was wrong. This is the same tactic he Pharisees used to try and trap our Saviour. And no, I am in no way saying that I am anywhere near to being like Jesus. I am saying he used the same tactics. So, I used the same words our Saviour used to the Pharisees. Of course, they probably think Jesus attacked them.
I only follow the words of the disciples when their words do not conflict with the Son of God's words.
You are literally going from bad to worse. Let's start with this:
You said:
"You see, TBK likes to quote scripture. But then again, so do snake handlers. The passages that TBK quoted from Luke, were not the words of Christ. When the word of the disciples contradict the words of Christ, Christ's words are the ones we are to follow."
Here are the verses that I quoted from Luke. Tell me where you take issue with these verses. Which of these verses are contrary to the words of Christ.
Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Luke 6:16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
I've read the thread so I understand how it played out. I was specifically speaking of your comment about him thinking his way is the only way. I was comparing it to the other comment you made about your own theology. I was asking how the two are different.
Yes he said your views were in error because he believes he is right. You are saying his are in error and have said that you believe you are right. I'm asking what the difference is.
"There is a huge difference between explaining something and someone trying to "tear down someone's beliefs". "
Show me where I "tore down your beliefs". By the way, I have every right to tear down any stronghold and any belief that is contrary to the Word of God. But show me where I did anything but explain with Scripture or ask you questions about your responses.
Let me remind you again what you originally said since you are attempting to change the entire course of the dialogue here:
"Even Judas could have been saved from his sin, but he murdered himself. "
I wrapped my mind around this just fine. The problem with it is that it's Scripturally inaccurate as I have already shown you.
And what exactly is "Biblical legalese"? Could you give us all a definition of that? Then show everyone how I used this "Biblical legalese" to assert my own personal superiority.
You are serving everyone here a pile of malarkey. You know it, I know it and all of the readers know it.
Tell everyone reading this thread how your judgment of me has merit. Here was the judgment you cast:
"Matthew 23:26-28
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
How do you know that I am full of hypocrisy and iniquity within? How do you determine that I am full of dead man's bones and uncleanness? How do you know that I am "trying to appear righteous"? How do you know that there is "no truth in me"?
If indeed the Spirit of truth dwells in me, than have you not just called that Spirit a devil?
Apostelle, please tell us why I am wrong for judging a belief that you possess against the Word of God itself and yet you are justified in judging me as a person for doing so.
I would like strong biblical views on if suicide can be forgiven or if it is a one way ticket to hell."
TK, I have read throught the entire thread in this posting.
I would first like to share how deaply sorry I am that you were caught up in the middle of great strife, and never did get an answer to your question.
I would like to at this time give you the answer you greatly desire. A strong biblical view of suicide and can or can it not be forgiven!
By the power and promise of our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ, I will answer your question from the Word of God alone. I will not interject my own thoughts in this matter.
First here is the promise from Jesus.
John 14:26 (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Let me begin with the definition of suicide!
SU'ICIDE, n. [L. suicidium; se and coedo, to slay.]
1. Self-murder; the act of designedly destroying one's own life.
So; by definition we see suicide is murder.
Ok you might say! So lets look at the definition of murder.
MUR'DER, v.t.
1. To kill a human being with premeditated malice.
So; we see here murder is premeditated.
Ok, lets go one step further; let us look at the definition of premeditated.
PREMED'ITATED, pp. Previously considered or meditated.
1. Previously contrived, designed or intended; deliberate; willful; as premeditated murder.
So; by definition we see that suicide is deliberate; willful murder.
If we commit murder, that makes us a murderer.
Now lets see what God has to say abou this matter.
Exodus 20:13 (KJV)
13 Thou shalt not kill.
Deuteronomy 5:17 (KJV)
17 Thou shalt not kill.
We see here twice in the old testament, a direct command from God. Also we see God repeated this in scripture so it must be of much importance. It is also repeated by Jesus in the new testament, in his answer to the young man.
What did God say? "Thou shalt not kill."
As we saw by definition in murder we are killing our body (murder)
What does God say about murder/ a murderer?
Romans 1:28-32 (KJV)
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
In Romans 1:32 we see those that commit murder "are worthy of death"
Galatians 5:15-21 (KJV)
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
In Galatians 5:21 we see that those who commit murders "shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
1 John 3:15 (KJV)
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
In 1 John 3:15 we see "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
Revelation 22:14-15 (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
In Revelation 22:15 we see that murderers are outside God's holy city.
Now comes the one that makes us want to fall on our faces at Jesus' feet begging forgiveness with a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart.
Revelation 21:7-8 (KJV)
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
In Revelation 21:8 we see that murderers "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"
Here is the one that really make our heart swell up into our throat.
Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Wilfull sin is something we take thought of, suicide is something we take thought of. We can not commit self murder without first thinking about it.
Having the "knowledge of the truth," and commiting self murder "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Jesus can not and will not be sacrificed for our sin ever again. Having knowledge of the truth and returning to our sin leaves us with nothing more than "a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,"
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
In Hebrews 6 we see God tells us it is impossible to renew someone again unto repentance we they turn from his heavenly gift, his word, the Holy Ghost.
To do such a thing is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost! To denie the power of the Holy Ghost by turning to sin again is blasphemy.
Matthew 12:31 (KJV)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Romans 15:13 (KJV)
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Here a couple passages that I pray may bring peace into your heart.
Romans 5:1-5 (KJV)
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Galatians 5:5 (KJV)
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
I pray our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ lead your heart and your every footstep in his glory and righteousness.
