The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 12:53 PM
The Evidence of the Holy Ghost Baptism is Speaking in Tongues
New Languages Ordained by God, Yet Despised by Man ...
Many people look askance when an individual, or a church, projects the Word of God in its fullness, and implement God's Word in their lives as He commands us to do. Argumentations particularly arise when the Word of God is quoted for the pattern of salvation:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent (have a change of mind), and be baptized (i.e. immersed)every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shallreceive the gift of the Holy Ghost." - with the evidence of speaking in tongues - ACTS 2:38.
Much disagreement also arises when God's Word is shown to command us to worship Him in the new language, which the Lord puts on the lips of a person as He converts him to the Christian 'walk'. There is, however, no confusion or disagreement in God's Word, and He commands people to do as He says, not what they want to do:
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (JOHN 14:15)
We find that God says in JOHN 4:23-24:
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE WORSHIPPERSshall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
See 1 CORINTHIANS 14:14where the Apostle Paul enlightens us concerning his ability to pray in the spirit by use of the new language. Read verse 18 also.
We do note that the scripture in JOHN 4 defines 'true worshippers', indicating there would be worshippers (but not 'true' ones) whose worship is not accepted by God because their prayers are not in the Spirit (i.e. praying to God in the new tongues He gives).
God gave many people the new miraculous languages on their lips on the day of Pentecost (about fifty days after Christ's crucifixion) - ACTS 2:1-4. On that day, the Christian Church was born, and these new languages glorified the works of God (see verse 11).
ACTS 2:37-39 give allmankind the full pattern of God's salvation. There is no compromise with God's Word! We see in JOHN 16:14that God's Spirit (as we pray in the new language) glorifies Jesus and reveals Him to us. Moreover in ACTS 2:11, we are shown that the Spirit glorified God as they prayed in the new languages: God commands that this is a 'MUST' for those who worship Him (those who are saved) - JOHN 4:24.
Why then, when God's Word is so clear, should there be rebellion and confusion in the world on this issue today? God's Word tells us why! Because man and man's ways are at enmity with God - JAMES 4:4; 1 JOHN 2:15-16; ISAIAH 55:8-9. This enmity is shown clearly in these scriptures.
LUKE 2:34 "And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against."
We note that God's Word says in ACTS 28:22that 'this sect' was spoken against everywhere.
ACTS 2:22 says: "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
ISAIAH 66:18,19tells us that this sign would be in the midst of His people.
People who pray in the Spirit (with the miraculous new languages given to them by God), are said to be heretics, fanatics, and so on. God's Word forewarns us that the people would say just this:
ACTS 24:14 "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets."
Note also that verse 25of ACTS 24 tells us:
"And as he (Paul)reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee."
If Paul, being of 'the way' by God's power, caused Felix the Governor to tremble, we also should keep to God's Word, follow God's way, and let God cause the nation to tremble and turn to Him. Why speak against 'God's way' when the nation is in such dire need? Why speak against God's Word and be judged for it?
HEBREWS 13:15 says: "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of ourlips giving thanks to his name."
This scripture was written to the Hebrews, a Spirit-filled people.
We have seen previously how God's Holy Spirit was poured out when the Church was born in ACTS 2:1-4.
Other relevant scriptures are:
ACTS 10:44-48 (Verse 46 shows how they knew the Holy Spirit was poured out).
ACTS 11:15-17(Peter was present on the day of Pentecost).
ACTS 19:1-6.
The Word of God in DEUTERONOMY 4:2, PROVERBS 30:6 and ECCLESIASTES 3:14 warns every person not to add to, or take away from God's Word, BUT to accept it as written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit.
'The fruit of (the) lips' of those people to whom Paul wrote in HEBREWS 13:15would include the new, miraculous, God-given languages of the Holy Spirit.
All these scriptures should be clear to God's 'born-again' (JOHN 3:1-7) sons and daughters everywhere (ALSOto the unsaved person, who should take heed of what God has written).
Remember, as one worships God in the new, heaven-given language, the Holy Spirit glorifies God (ACTS 2:11), praying according to His will (ROMANS 8:26-27), and glorifies and reveals Jesus to the believer (JOHN 16:14).
Jesus did saythat these signs would follow them that believe. He did not say these signs shall follow the unbelievers and critics. So we see that no person has any right to alter the pattern as laid down by God in His Word! ALLmust refuse to compromise on God's Word.
We note in 1 PETER 2:6, that God says a 'chief-cornerstone' is laid (i.e. Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God). Verses 7 and 8 tell us:
"Unto you therefore which believe (who trust and adhere to Jesus) he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders (the Jews) disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
JOHN 1:1-14reminds us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Because people are disobedient to Jesus' Words, and will not obey them, they stumble at them. Jesus said:
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (JOHN 14:15).
GOD'S WORD IS CLEAR !!
THE WORD OF GOD DOES NOT NEED TO BE INTERPRETED - BUT ACTED UPON !
We are always to ...
EXALT THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR, BAPTIZER, GLORIOUS LORD, AND COMING KING.
...ANDthere is no way to do this, but by telling others of the pattern of salvation as written in God's Word, reading and obeying that Word, and worshipping God by praying in the new, heaven-given tongues poured out on His people when they are saved by His grace.
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 06:23 AM
amen PJ, as long as one holds onto their pride and holds onto the things that they believe cause they are too proud to asmit they are wrong then they will never be able to see the truth! I think it is clear what is in the book of acts and i am admiting I was wrong even in my firsat reply in this thread I was wrong I had to really read and read and read this scripture and pray to undestand it and know what it was I believed about it! Maybe agape will see the truth as I have posted the scriptures and explanations for them
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 07:41 AM
If you are "Saved" and Spirit Filled with the Holy Ghost, He will lead you in All Truth. If you are humble and can learn from Spirit Filled leaders that is always a Help.
Some people like to Be lead of Themself.
Haveing a Personal Relationship with Christ is what is important. Christ First in everything.
I understand the Scriptures and what I do not understand; I ask Spirit Filled Christians that have the Holy Ghost.
I never want to be lead by people that profess but do not
really know Christ.
And those that try to learn All by them. Well they need a humble Spirit.
Yes, I do study.... to show myself approved unto God.
We as Believers are suppose to do that.
But a Peson needs to Stay Humble to be lead by TRUE
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 08:29 AM
To Agapeton:
Hey Brother,i am glad to know that you have seen that the languages spoken by the people Empowered of the Holy Spirit are KNOWN languages of men,not some UNKNOWN angelic language.
Even Paul heard Yeshua speaking to him in his language,WHen Yeshua knocked Paul off of his horse.
Paul heard Yeshua speak to him in the Hebrew tongue..
Act 26:12 In which also traveling to Damascus with authority and decision power from the chief priests,
Act 26:13 at midday along the highway, O king, I and those with me saw a light from heaven shining around me above the brightness of the sun.
Act 26:14 And all of us falling to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me, and saying in the Hebrew dialect, Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the prods.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who are you, Sir? And He said, I am Jesus whom you persecute;
What does the WORD of YHWH say about this matter.
Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days after."
Act 1:8 but you will receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you, and you will be witnesses of Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
The purpose of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit FIRST is to be showing that Yeshua has been glorified.
Joh 7:38 The one believing into Me, as the Scripture said, Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water. No OT passage
Joh 7:39 But He said this concerning the Spirit, whom the ones believing into Him were about to receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
2. The Holy Spirit is given to Empower the believers in Yehsua to being WITNESSES of who Yesuha is,and what He is like.
Act 1:8 but you will receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you, and you will be witnesses of Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
3.The Holy Spirit leads believers into the truth.
Joh 16:13 But when that One comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you into all Truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He hears, He will speak;
There are many Scriptures which reveal who the Holy Spirit is, and What He is like.
The outpouring of the Holy SPirit is the beginning of the Glorification of Yeshua in the lives of His people.
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 03:34 PM
phillipjohn
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 05:58 PM
Btw the way that is one of the ways that the traditions of men answer's acts 2:4
Actually the only tradition that has made this verse to come up with this unintelligible language is that of Aimee Semple McPherson who started this thing in the 1900's. Look it up.
phillipjohn
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 05:58 PM
Btw the way that is one of the ways that the traditions of men answer's acts 2:4 .
phillipjohn
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 06:23 PM
When a believer receives the Holy Spirit and is filled he will speak in other tongues an unknown language to him and it could be known to everyone else present, that is not important, know if you notice it is the Holy Spirit that gives them the utterance in tongues it is the believer that speaks.
ME: Um, brother, I don't know where you got this from but these people speaking in this tongue were understood by others as well as themselves, otherwise they wouldn't be speaking the mighty works of God.
It says other tongue's in otherwords it is not a known tongue to those speaking in tongues.
ME: WHERE DOE IT SAY UNKNOWN TONGUES, brother? Can you point out the vers where it says that, please?
Note The Holy Spirit did not go in them in this scripture he came upon them.
Whether it filled them or fell upon them, it was the promise of the father that was fulfilled according to Peter. And if that is the only reference that you have to justify this speaking of a tongue that is incomprehensible, then you are not understanding what you read and unknowingly twisting them, brother.
phillipjohn
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 06:29 PM
Agapeton what is wrong with this statement?
By the way, If this is the only example of tongues being spoken, then the gift of tongues is of a known man's language because people UNDERSTOOD THEM when they did it.
By the text in Acts 2:1-11, brother. Nothing. What do you think is wrong with it?
elishabroadway
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 08:27 PM
please see verse 4, the were speaking in other tounges as the spirit gave them utterance, but in verse 6 the other men heard them in their own language with further investigation of thses scriptures as I have kept my mouth shut and studied while yall argued I prayed and studied and here is my conclusion!!
this is 2 seperate miracles!! THe first is that these men were speaking in other tounges they were not speaking in anyones language at all but in vewrse 6 the men that spoke and understood other languages heard them in theri own language this is the second miracle they the men speaking in verse 4 were not speaking their own language and they were not speaking other languages either! they were speaking unknown tounges!
Please show me OR at least explain your two miracles at separate times idea, please. Because Scripture surely does NOT say what you did no matter how much you say so. By even thinking of such a thing you would be going contrary to what Christianity teaches on the subject.
elishabroadway
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 08:39 PM
I see, sister but there really seems to be no example of this prayer language given to people in Scripture. We cannot go beyond that the Scriptures say (1 Cor. 4:6), sister. If there is no example of this language without any examples of Scripture to show for it then we have to abide by the Scriptures and no more. Agree?
We first have to find this tongues prayer language as being given in the book of the Acts of the Apostles to see if it was given as men teach it or the Scriptures teach it. Do you agree, sister?
No agape I do not agree ther is an example or at least a guide and expalnation of the prayer language
this is the scripture you refered to has nothjing to do with the subject
I'll highlight what it says:
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us NOT TO THINK ABOVE THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN, THAT NO ONE OF YOU BE PUFFED UP AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.
Also. You said:
however 1cr 14:2 does have something to do with it and proves the existance of a prayer language as it doesnt have to be in acts to be the truth
ME: Actually, sister, IT DOES. Because if it is not IN Scripture within it's correct context, then it is a man made philosophy. (Col 2:8)
For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
^^^^^^^^^^
Context, dear sister. Context. Paul is using this verse to REBUKE A GATHERING THAT WAS ABUSING AND ACTING WORLDLY BY SPEAKING IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE (TONGUE, Greek GLossa same word is used in Acts 2:1-11) WITHOUT ANYONE TO INTERPRET WHAT THEY WERE SAYING IN A GENTILE CHURCH that was comprised of MANY people of MANY NATIONAL BACK GROUNDS.
Even if we try to use this verse your way, then Paul clearly shows it within context like this;
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
1Co 14:7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played?
1Co 14:8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For YOU WILL BE SPEAKING INTO THE AIR.
1Co 14:10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and NONE IS WITHOUT MEANING,
1Co 14:11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays BUT MY MIND IS UNFRUITFUL.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit,BUT I WILL PRAY WITH MY MIND ALSO; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
so speaking to god and no man understands!! NO MAN!!! thjat sounds like the description of a prayer language to me!
I'VE YET TO SEE ANYTHING IN SCRIPTURE TO DESCRIBE THIS PRAYER LANGUAGE AS WELL AS AN EXAMPLE OF IT BEING GIVEN TO ANYONE IN THE BOOK OF ACTS, SISTER.
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 07:28 PM
phillipjohn
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The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 06:26 PM
Agapeton no one can make you believe the word of God, it is a choice you have to make and you can not do it with your mind or carnally.
You are trying to tell people that are waling in the light of the word that you are wiser than God.
Right, PJ. The Scriptures say to test all things and hold on to that which is true. It is not a warning. It is a command. I strongly challenge you to research this (as well as show me where there is any hint of a thought of this unknown and unintelligible prayer language given to anyone in the book of Acts to prove your stance) by the Spirit of God and the truth of His word and not by man's teaching, brother. Because the Scriptures speak of people being deceived and deceiving others unknowingly because they fail to see the simplicity of Christ's atonement on the cross for us as a reconciliation to God thereby giving us free undisturbed communicative access to him without a need for a special language other than that of the person's own words, or deeds.
And if you or anyone else believes this, then you are deceiving yourself into a false sense of security, brother.
The evidence of the holy Ghost babtism is speaking in tounges
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 07:33 PM
UGGHHH!!
The first miracle was that the men spoke in an unknown tounge! a whole nother language!! The second miracle was that men who spoke a different language than the men is verse 4 actuly spoke (but this was not the language they were speaking) they all herd them in their own languege! Think about it!! all thses men weref rom different places so the men speaking were only speaking one language but the men who were listening in verse 6 were HEARING their own language that is a miracle but the first on ein verse 4 was that they were speaking in a n unknown tounge!
If these men were actuly speaking in the language on the men listening thenhow are they speaking so many languages at one time!! as the scripture mentions many different places where they spoke diffeent languages!
SOOOO the only conclusion was the unknown tounge was a seperate language that none of the men spoke at all but the men that were hearing them heard them in their own!! that doesnt mean the men were speaking the language that the hearing men spoke!
That is clear from the scripture!
IF the men speaking were talking in the language that the men listening spoke!! then what would the big deal be??
as I am sure people were bilingual back then, I am sure it would be no great big deal If I went to china and spoke chineese but if I went to chine spoke a language than no man had ever heard an d the people there heard chineese!!! well thats pretty big!
