is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 23 Jan, 2012 01:01 PM
Within the Scriptures? Seriously, I was just pondering about the wonders of our Lord and it suddenly dawned on me.
The Scriptures really don't show a hierarchy within the Godhead anywhere in the Scriptures of the three essences with the exception of Jesus leaving all of His majesty, honor, authority, and power on the throne to become a man and be subject to the Father. But other than that part of the Scriptures ALL THREE ARE EQUAL in power and authority from one another.
I honestly think that the only ones who separate the "authority" between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is mankind because we tend to put a "label" on something in order to make it easier to understand it on our human terms.
What do you think? Is there such a thing as a hierarchy between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures? If so, then please present the Scriptures to show it so that we may all learn from it.
By the way, this is purely for discussion purposes and not to bash anyone's knowledge of anything here. So the Phorum Pharisitically minded people please be peaceable or stay out of the topic.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 06:18 AM
PJ comes in to grace the topic again and says: Agapeton that hope you speak of is not bible faith
you speak of natural hope.
Bible hope comes from the word.
ME: Thanks, PJ. I'm sure you can testify to which is which because you're a perfect example of speaking from both.
Love does not promote himself
ME: so who is promoting themselves here, bro?
/What you ARE TALKING ABOUT IN EQUALITY Is
Love.
ME: why don't you TRY reading what I'm saying with a clear mind and then tell me what I'm taking about, bro. You who speak of not using the mind a lot should find it easy.
From the beginning the sin has been man adding
to or taking away from the father, the word of
God.
ME: I agree. That is why I'm trying to point out another truth that man with a sin nature has attempted to "RANK" the God of the Bible by placing "labels" of "authority" WITHIN the Godhead by belittling Christ because He became humble by becoming human and the Body of Christ just accepted it and IS RUNNING WITH THIS IDEA.
Engaging the Word of God with the mind is not
spiritual but mental.
ME: OK.
That one needs an interpretation for sure.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall
have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the
Father; when he shall have put down all rule and
all authority and power.
ME: we still looking at the work of Christ at the END, bro?
Notice how the Father he will put down ALL rule and AUTHORITY and POWER there? Where do you think that will happen? So will Jesus be part of that and in what way?
Thanks for stopping by, PJ.
By the way, it was actually refreshing to see you actually post something that pertains to the subject for once. Way to go, bro.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 06:42 AM
Agaepton, Your problem is with AUTHORITY, and its obvious by the things you speak, and your pride and ego refuses to allow you to accept anything anyone says that is more than what you think you know and understanding in God's... cuz, you like to think of yourself as having spiritual knowledge and insight that you really don't have, and you like being in control when in reality you're not as spiritual minded or informed as you THINK YOU ARE, and it shows by what you post, you speak from your own interpretations of God's word, and of your own mind and thoughts... not godly wisdom of knowing. Time spent in reading I Corinthians chpaters 1-5 will do you well.
If you're being led by the Holy Spirit in what you speak thenyou would understand the Father and Son relationship between God and Jesus and have insight into what the scripture passages and even Jesus says, you would have also known what I posted on pages I think startng at page two of this thread about diety and that God is His OWN divine head of the Trinity, etc... but you have no clue yet tyou fight against the trth trying to make your point stand, which goes no where.
Where you're TRYING TO go with this yopic is as you stated with Elisha: You said: Now since Jesus is equal to the Father, then the Spirit, who has the same authority as Jesus,m is also equal in the Godhead. Now since Jesus gave us this authority to emulate to the world of the same community, then we too, are of the same authority and are not one greater than each other. With that being said, we should hold no rank over one or the other now. We are all kings and priests. No lower hierarchy there. Equal through and through. So now if we the Body are the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:23), then we too are to interact JUST LIKE THE GODHEAD. You agree?
Ella says: You're seeking someone to agree with your rebellious spirit that we are not to be subjected to authority, and there is no need for spiritual leaders. Yet you obey your boss on your job??...
My question to you, is your son subject to you, or are you subject to him, or do you both have equal authority?
You lack spiirutal udnerstanding into God's work because you continue to seek and justify a way around SUBMISSION TO AUTHORITY as to what God speaks, that He has placed spiritual and government leaders in power of wuthority over the church and nation, whcih you reject out of your hardheadness and rebellion. This is why you question everthing anyones says, and you have an answer for everything that does not agree with you no matter what anyone says. YOU DO NOT LIKE AUTHORITY and you try to find a way to say that everyone is equal and no one should have authority over anyone. Even the scritpure passage you quoted was no correct, God is not speaking about what you think he is about lording over another...
God's word stand and you deceive yourself thinking you have the truth of God's word and the answers, and youc an't change His word to fit your cause of rebellion, or what you think it should be, when you don't even understand what it is you're speaking in scripture becasue you lean to your own understanding of scripture and not revelation from the Holy Spirit otherwise you would be in agreement with what God's word says.You are indeed in UNBELIEF otherwise you would have so many questions and your own answers when it doesn't agree with what you think.
You try to put down PJ, and as I've said PJ might not be able to express what it is he is saying all the time, but he has more spiritual understanding of God's word than you and many others on thsi forum.
God doesn't use smart and wise people who are wrapped up in their own knowledge about His word, He uses those who take His word at face value an belive without doubt and questioning what He ahs spoken. As God says He uses the foolish things to confound the wise, and the spiritual things that the Holy Spirit reveals is foolishness to those who think theyare wise and have the know all in matter pretaining to the things of God.
As I've asked you before, what is it that you spiritually seek,? what is your purpose? and what is your intent?...
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 06:43 AM
Agaepton, Your problem is with AUTHORITY, and its obvious by the things you speak, and your pride and ego refuses to allow you to accept anything anyone says that is more than what you think you know and understanding in God's... cuz, you like to think of yourself as having spiritual knowledge and insight that you really don't have, and you like being in control when in reality you're not as spiritual minded or informed as you THINK YOU ARE, and it shows by what you post, you speak from your own interpretations of God's word, and of your own mind and thoughts... not godly wisdom of knowing. Time spent in reading I Corinthians chpaters 1-5 will do you well.
If you're being led by the Holy Spirit in what you speak thenyou would understand the Father and Son relationship between God and Jesus and have insight into what the scripture passages and even Jesus says, you would have also known what I posted on pages I think startng at page two of this thread about diety and that God is His OWN divine head of the Trinity, etc... but you have no clue yet tyou fight against the trth trying to make your point stand, which goes no where.
Where you're TRYING TO go with this yopic is as you stated with Elisha: You said: Now since Jesus is equal to the Father, then the Spirit, who has the same authority as Jesus,m is also equal in the Godhead. Now since Jesus gave us this authority to emulate to the world of the same community, then we too, are of the same authority and are not one greater than each other. With that being said, we should hold no rank over one or the other now. We are all kings and priests. No lower hierarchy there. Equal through and through. So now if we the Body are the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:23), then we too are to interact JUST LIKE THE GODHEAD. You agree?
Ella says: You're seeking someone to agree with your rebellious spirit that we are not to be subjected to authority, and there is no need for spiritual leaders. Yet you obey your boss on your job??...
My question to you, is your son subject to you, or are you subject to him, or do you both have equal authority?
You lack spiirutal udnerstanding into God's work because you continue to seek and justify a way around SUBMISSION TO AUTHORITY as to what God speaks, that He has placed spiritual and government leaders in power of wuthority over the church and nation, whcih you reject out of your hardheadness and rebellion. This is why you question everthing anyones says, and you have an answer for everything that does not agree with you no matter what anyone says. YOU DO NOT LIKE AUTHORITY and you try to find a way to say that everyone is equal and no one should have authority over anyone. Even the scritpure passage you quoted was no correct, God is not speaking about what you think he is about lording over another...
God's word stand and you deceive yourself thinking you have the truth of God's word and the answers, and youc an't change His word to fit your cause of rebellion, or what you think it should be, when you don't even understand what it is you're speaking in scripture becasue you lean to your own understanding of scripture and not revelation from the Holy Spirit otherwise you would be in agreement with what God's word says.You are indeed in UNBELIEF otherwise you would have so many questions and your own answers when it doesn't agree with what you think.
You try to put down PJ, and as I've said PJ might not be able to express what it is he is saying all the time, but he has more spiritual understanding of God's word than you and many others on thsi forum.
God doesn't use smart and wise people who are wrapped up in their own knowledge about His word, He uses those who take His word at face value an belive without doubt and questioning what He ahs spoken. As God says He uses the foolish things to confound the wise, and the spiritual things that the Holy Spirit reveals is foolishness to those who think theyare wise and have the know all in matter pretaining to the things of God.
As I've asked you before, what is it that you spiritually seek,? what is your purpose? and what is your intent?...
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 07:03 AM
One more thing, you do well to seek God for a spiritual attitude adjustment, relinement, and tune-up. And to do a check and balance of yourself, because you will find that your are somewhat off course.
You have something that God can use, if you allow Him to use you according to His will, and not you lean to your own understanding. BUt then again, this involves PERFECT SUBMISSION TO AUTHORITY even so, to the Holy Spirit, and of God's own words, and those teachers He will place over you to guide you. As He has always down throughout the ages inlcuding Paul Timothy Titus and others.
Submission to authority is the greatest quality of Jesus character that we are taught.And you're only deceiving yourslef if you think that Jesus is not subject to God otherwise, you have need to explain how is it that it was God who placed Him on His right hand and exalted HIm. If Jesus's wuthority is equal to God's then you should have the answers to everything Jesus has spoken in the gospel about obeying the Father, and what God has said about Jesus being submissive and obedient even unto death. And who gave Jesus the commands to do so?...
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 07:17 AM
And again, Sal, if you in all of your so-called knowledge and understanding do not understand the spirituall meaning of this passage as I've posted before, then you are in unbeleif of God's word... and need to have a little talk with Jesus about your salvation.
I Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he �has put everything under his feet.� Now when it says that �everything� has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 08:17 AM
Genesis 1:1
(KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(KJV+) In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776
(LITV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
(YLT) In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth--
In the Hebrew language the word for God is ELOHIM,this is the plural of ELOAH.
Had Eloah been used in stead of Elohim,the the Father would reign supreme above Yeshua and the Holy Spirit.
Because Elohim is used in Genesis 1:1,we have the plurality of the Godhead in the creation of al that we can see,and cannot see.
The Father does not need Yeshua or the Holy Spirit in order to being GOD,His being GOD does not depend upon anyone,not even Yeshua, or the holy Spirit.
The same could be said for Yeshua,and the Holy SPirit.
The Holy SPirit does not need the Father,nor Yeshua to being GOD.
Yeshua does not need the Father,nor the Holy Spirit to being GOD.
The Father is not the Son,not the Holy SPirit.
The Son is not the Holy SPirit,nor the Father.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father,nor the SOn.
Yet the Father is GOD.
The Son is GOD.
The Holy SPirit is GOD.
Each person within the Triune Gidhead is is Omnipotent,
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 08:20 AM
All we need is LOVE...Ta..Ta..Ta..Ta..Da...All We NEEEeeeDDDDdddd IS LOVE..LOVE...All We Really Need is LOOOVVVEEEE....:bouncy:...Love Yall Bunches....:peace:...xo
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 10:13 AM
ME: I agree. That is why I'm trying to point out another truth that man with a sin nature has attempted to "RANK" the God of the Bible by placing "labels" of "authority" WITHIN the Godhead by belittling Christ because He became humble by becoming human and the Body of Christ just accepted it and IS RUNNING WITH THIS IDEA.
I agree. That is why I'm trying to point out another truth that man with a sin nature has attempted to "RANK" the God of the Bible
If you have a sin nature you are not saved, what next.
Engaging the Word of God with the mind is not
spiritual but mental.
ME: OK.
That one needs an interpretation for sure.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall
have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the
Father; when he shall have put down all rule and
all authority and power.
ME: we still looking at the work of Christ at the END, bro?
Notice how the Father he will put down ALL rule and AUTHORITY and POWER there? Where do you think that will happen? So will Jesus be part of that and in what way?
Thanks for stopping by, PJ.
Your words again reveal your heart, notice your opinion of interpretation.
is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Posted : 25 Jan, 2012 11:34 AM
You can not think through Spiritual confusion to make things clear. To make things clearer you must Obey. In intellectual matters you can think things ourt. But, in Spiritual matters you will only think yourself into further wandering thoughts and more Confusion.
If there is something in your life or Mind upon which God has put His pressure, then Obey Him in that matter. Bring All your Arguments and every thought into Captivity to the Obedience of Jesus Christ regarding the thoughts and everything you do not understand according to His Word in Scriptures. Everything will become as clear as daylight to You if you are humble and Obey Him.
