Author Thread: Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
dljrn04

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 1 Aug, 2012 11:43 AM

Amid the swirling controversies of the ninth century, there was raised a strong voice for sovereign grace belonging to an unknown German monk named Gottschalk of Orbais (ca. 804�869). Like Augustine before him and Luther and Calvin after him, Gottschalk possessed an overriding sense of the sovereignty of God in salvation, and he brought it to bear upon his turbulent generation. It was in this dark hour of history that this medieval theologian stood in the gap to uphold the banner of the doctrines of grace.



Born at Mentz in modern Germany, Gottschalk was the son of a respected nobleman, Count Berno of Saxony. At the insistence of his father, he conceded to take a lifelong monastic vow while still a young boy. But upon reaching the age of maturity, Gottschalk sought to be released from this commitment and leave the monastery. The church, however, would not release him, beginning a long-standing rivalry between the two.



As a concession, Gottschalk was allowed to move to the monastery at Orbais, in northeast France, where something unexpected occurred. Gottschalk became an avid reader of Augustine (354�430), the most dominant teacher of the early Western church. With the bishop of Hippo as his theological mentor, Gottschalk clearly saw the biblical truths of inseparable relationships between human depravity, unconditional election, and monergistic regeneration. Immediately, these grand truths struck his soul like a lightning bolt, igniting his heart with a burning passion for God. Far from being a mere intellectual pursuit, these God-exalting doctrines transformed his life, infusing him with holy zeal.



Gottschalk began to travel extensively, preaching these truths wherever he went. Soon other monks were convinced to embrace them. The doctrines of sovereign grace now had a new champion. He undertook a pilgrimage to Rome and spread Augustinian teaching throughout Italy, the Balkans, and Bulgaria � but not without conflict.



Summoned to appear before the Synod of Mainz (848), Gottschalk was to give an account of his bold teaching on the doctrines of grace. Before the king and church officials, he confessed his unwavering belief in the sovereignty of God in salvation. He stated his doctrine was true to the Scriptures and consistent with Augustine. But the synod decided against Gottschalk and delivered him into the custody of the most powerful bishop in France, the archbishop of Reims, a man named Hincmar (ca. 806�882).



Hincmar ordered Gottschalk to appear before the Synod of Chiersy (849) where he was charged with heresy. Specifically, he was accused of gemina pradestinatio � double predestination � a step in which he went even further than his teacher Augustine. Not only did God eternally predestine His elect to eternal life, Gottschalk maintained that He also foreordained all reprobates to eternal death. When Gottschalk refused to recant, the synod charged him a heretic and flogged him within an inch of his life. His books were publicly burned and he was imprisoned at Hautvilliers.



Prominent church leaders were outraged at this unjust treatment. Had not Gottschalk merely taught the same essential theology as Augustine? Several men stepped forward to lend their support, including such notables as Remigius, the archbishop of Lyon (d. 875), Florus of Lyon (d. 860), Prudentius of Troyes (d. 861), and Ratramnus of Corbie. These men asserted that Gottschalk was not alone in believing the God-exalting truths of sovereign grace. They stood with him, though Florus counseled him to preach the gospel to the lost, not election.



With such respected churchmen taking this strong stand, the controversy boiled to a fever pitch. At the insistence of the king of Francia, the Synod of Chiersy (849) was convened to sort out this theological dilemma. Tragically, this ill-led session adopted a semi-Pelagian position, and Gottschalk remained imprisoned for the next two decades.



Even in a time when it was unpopular to do so, Gottschalk held fast to the doctrines of grace. The center of gravity of his thinking was his fundamental belief in the supreme authority of God to govern every area of creation and life, including salvation. From this high ground he would not be budged. The following represents his teaching:



Total depravity



Like Augustine before him, Gottschalk was persuaded that all humanity was in Adam, and when the first man sinned, mankind fell with him into death. In his sinful state, man, he believed, inherits a �total depravity of will and mind� [and is] incapable of willing good unless efficaciously enabled by divine grace. He is able only to sin, not to do good.� Gottschalk added: �After the first man fell by free will, none of us is able to use free will to do good, but only to do evil.� That is, man�s will is free, but it has no desire to do good because it is corrupted by sin.



Sovereign election



Gottschalk further affirmed the doctrine of unconditional election. Gottschalk believed that God has �elected a world from out of the world.� He wrote: �Before all worlds and before whatever God did from the beginning, He foreordained to the Kingdom whom He willed.� God cannot and will not alter His saving decree: �God the immutable, immutably predestined before the foundation of the world all His elect by His free grace to eternal life.�



Definite atonement



But, unlike Augustine, Gottschalk taught a specific death by Christ for the elect: �Our God and master Jesus Christ [was] crucified only for the elect.� It has been said that Gottschalk provided the first clear articulation and defense of a particular redemption in church history. Although men previous to him had made strong statements about the basic aspects of this doctrine, Gottschalk first demonstrated the strong relationship between predestination and the extent of the atonement. Gottschalk wrote, �Christ died only for the elect,� asserting that Christ died exclusively and triumphantly for the sins of His people.



Irresistible calling



Gottschalk was convinced that the new birth is all of God. The Holy Spirit must draw the sinner to faith in Christ. He wrote: �We run in a way that befits our salvation when we are drawn by God.� He believed that the Holy Spirit brings life to spiritually dead sinners, grants saving faith to the elect, and that He recreates elect souls. In a hymn, Gottschalk wrote, �O Holy Spirit, You bring instant life to those You breathe into�. Together with the Father and the Son, You recreate Your elect souls, And when they are recreated, You also glorify them.�



Preserving grace



Gottschalk held that all those whom God elects are eternally secure, never losing their salvation: �Those who have been foreordained to the Kingdom cannot perish.� In this teaching, Gottschalk was consistent with Augustine.



But where Gottschalk most notably went beyond his mentor Augustine was in the doctrine of reprobation. While Augustine held to single predestination, that God chooses His elect and merely passes over the non-elect, Gottschalk explicitly taught that �predestination is double, whether of the elect to peace, or the reprobate to death.� That is, God foreordains the non-elect to reprobation, not as a just condemnation but because God willed to do so. He believed that the damning decree lies in God: �The precise number of the non-elect is specified by an eternal decree of God, a predestination to death, which runs parallel to the decree of election to life.�



Gottschalk advanced an infralapsarian position, arguing that God�s decree to elect came after His decree to permit the fall, rather than before (supralapsarianism). That is, mankind�s evil at the fall was the reason for reprobation: �God Himself by His righteous judgment immutably predestined to everlasting death all the reprobate, who on the day of judgment will be condemned on account of their own evil deserts.� In other words, God predestined some to reprobation because He knew them to be sinners. But it should be clarified that Gottschalk did not believe that God predestined anyone to sin. All transgression is the sole responsibility of man, not God.



According to Gottschalk, reprobation was not a specific decree, as in supralapsarianism, but a subject of foreknowledge. In his own words, Gottschalk asserted: �I believe and confess that God foreknew and foreordained the holy angels and elect men to unmerited eternal life, but that He equally foreordained the devil with his host and with all reprobate men, on account of their foreseen future evil deeds, by a just judgment, to merited eternal death.�



Gottschalk died on October 30, 869, having spent the last twenty years of his life in prison, suffering �murderous scourgings.� Sadly, he is said to have gone mad shortly before his death. Viewed with contempt by the religious establishment, Gottschalk was denied a Christian burial and was laid to rest in unconsecrated soil.



To the end, Gottschalk maintained a deep conviction as to God�s sovereignty. The truths of sovereign grace were both the cause of his suffering and his comfort in suffering. Many joined with Gottschalk in testifying to those truths, but he alone was persecuted as a heretical teacher, as the opposition felt he alone was dangerous to their church system. But though his enemies assailed him, Gottschalk has been vindicated by champions of the faith as a martyr to the truth.



Let us pray that God will bring about a resurgence of such God-centered doctrine in His church again. This remains the need of the hour.

by Steven Lawson

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 08:07 AM

Gottschalkism came before Calvinism

Posted : Posted : 2 Aug, 2012 12:33 PM



"When you can get in agreement with this context you have a foundation to build on."

EXCEPT the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it.



If Jesus is not the word of God there is no word.



So no you, hardness does not mean anything, he is the foundation for the house His Word.



With out JN. 3:16 word word for word you have no foundaion for the church, you have nothing but dead works.



Faith always works by Love.

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 08:08 AM

Gottschalkism came before Calvinism

Posted : Posted : 2 Aug, 2012 12:33 PM



"When you can get in agreement with this context you have a foundation to build on."

EXCEPT the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it.



If Jesus is not the word of God there is no word.



So no you, hardness does not mean anything, he is the foundation for the house His Word.



With out JN. 3:16 word word for word you have no foundaion for the church, you have nothing but dead works.



Faith always works by Love.

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 09:53 AM

A comment was made: "With out JN. 3:16 word word for word you have no foundaion for the church, you have nothing but dead works."



But is this true??



13 When Jesus came into the coasts of C�sarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it



NOTICE: Jesus tells Peter that upon this rock: "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God" - He will build his church. Is the rock then John 3:16 as some would assert falsely? Or is the Rock, the God given revelation that Jesus is the Christ- the Son of the living God??



Do you accept a "mans" word or do you believe the Word??

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 10:31 AM

A comment was made: "With out JN. 3:16 word word for word you have no foundaion for the church, you have nothing but dead works."



First Correction a declaration was made accoring to the living word of God. No comment's



Unless you acknowledge Jesus and his word are one, you have no basis for anything.

The foundtion and motive for everyhing the father does is love.



But is this true??







13 When Jesus came into the coasts of C�sarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?



14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.



15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?



16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.



17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven



18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it







NOTICE: Jesus tells Peter that upon this rock: "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God" - He will build his church. Is the rock then John 3:16 as some would assert falsely? Or is the Rock, the God given revelation that Jesus is the Christ- the Son of the living God??



You fall real short again Bob This text is about revealtion, and there s no revealation unlees there is first a word of God, I said a foundation for the church, and I never said there are not other scriptures the church is built upon.



Now where is your revelaion of the love of God for the world, that father so gave his son for all that he might, have more son's







Do you accept a "mans" word or do you believe the Word??



Yes do you accept Bob's mentl exercise of continually, falsely accusing all that profess the lord Jesus Christ or do you accept the simple truth of God's word.



One must hear the word of God before there will be any spiritual growth



Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Matthew 7:24-27





Unless you accept the simple profound truth of jn 3:16 you are on sinking sand.

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 11:25 AM

"The foundtion and motive for everyhing the father does is love." Partially true but misleading.



The foundation and motive for everything the Father does is His own glory, his namesake, and love for his glory. Passage upon passage can be multiplied to show and prove this. I am only including a few.



2 Sam 7:23 And what one nation on the earth is like Thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people and to make a name for Himself..



NOTICE: Because God loved Israel so much? NO

Because Israel had accepted Him as their Savior? NO

Because Israel was such a great nation in and of themselves? NO

Because Israel "CHOSE" God? NO

Because Israel opened the door of their hearts when he knocked? NO

Because of any works of Israels whatsoever? NO

Why then? "To make a name for Himself."







Ps 25:11 For thy name�s sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.



Ps 79: 9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name�s sake.



Is 48 :9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another



Is. 14:7 O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name�s sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee.



Is 66:19 And I will set a sign among them and will send survivors from them to the nations: Tarshish, Put, Lud, Meshech, Rosh, Tubal, and Javan to the distant coast lands that have neither heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they will declare My glory among the nations



Ez. 36: 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD , saith the Lord GOD when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.



John 17:4 I glorified Thee on earth, having accomplished the work which Thou hast given Me to do.



1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name�s sake.

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 11:29 AM

..... and again I say......



Glory to God alone!! Amen

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 11:49 AM

Bob shared ~ Partially true but misleading.



*** SOoooo...Bob is saying GOD is partially true and misleading ???...:toomuch:...



That foundation is truely sinking....Good WORD PJ...xo

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dljrn04

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 11:51 AM

Amen

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 12:12 PM

"*** SOoooo...Bob is saying GOD is partially true and misleading ???"



No Jude - I am saying that what PJ. said is a partial truth but not for the reason he believes which is why it is misleading.



So it's partial and that partial part is also misleading. Notice, I have also stated why and shown the scripture.



Thanks for the total misrepresentation of my words.



Please go take the red pill and set yourself free from the Matrix. :toomuch:

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dljrn04

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Gottschalkism came before Calvinism
Posted : 3 Aug, 2012 12:38 PM

pj and jude are great at misrepresentation of everyones words including God's.



Imagine that !!!!!







:bouncy:

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