Author Thread: Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 05:53 PM

These Following Scriptural Verses Clearly show that Baptism �Washes Away Sin����Makes Holy����Cleanses���Saves�� � in other words REGENERATES.



Either Scripture is God�s Revelation to us and does not Lie or Ours is a False faith! This TRUTH has been Believed since the very Beginning and is still held as TRUTH.





Acts 22:16

New International Version (NIV)

16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.�





Ephesians 5:26

New International Version (NIV)

26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word,





Titus 3:5

New International Version (NIV)

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,





1 Peter 3:20-21

New International Version (NIV)

20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also�not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,





Acts 2:38

New International Version (NIV)

38 Peter replied, �Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 06:12 PM

John 1:11-13: "To all who received Him {Jesus}, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, *NOR OF HUMAN DECISION* or a husband's will {Such as child baptism}, but BORN OF GOD!"



Grace is God's unmerited favor.



Ephesians 2:8-10: "For it by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is NOT from *YOURSELVES*, it is the *GIFT* of God--not by works {Including baptism}, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.



The Satanic idea of Baptismal Regeneration is so ridiculous that it is not even worthy of consideration. That some Satanic Priest saves you by sprinkling you with some water??



Anyone who is truly Born of God and receives the FREE GIFT of Faith will of course by very anxious to obey all of the approximately 400 commands in the NT including the command to be baptized.



Luke 3:15,16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water, But one more powerful than I will come, the throngs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire!"

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 07:41 PM

Now Peter sees a comparison between the waters of the flood and the waters of baptism. Verse 21 is the key verse: "And corresponding to that [the water of the flood], baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Now there are some denominations that love this verse because it seems at first to support the view called "baptismal regeneration." That is, baptism does something to the candidate: it saves by bringing about new birth. So, for example, one of the baptismal liturgies for infants says, "Seeing now, dearly beloved brethren, that this child is regenerate, and grafted into the body of Christ's Church, let us give thanks."







Now the problem with this is that Peter seems very aware that his words are open to dangerous misuse. This is why, as soon as they are out of his mouth, as it were, he qualifies them lest we take them the wrong way. In verse 21 he does say, "Baptism now saves you" - that sounds like the water has a saving effect in and of itself apart from faith. He knows that is what it sounds like and so he adds immediately, "Not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (Or your version might have: "the pledge of a good conscience toward God").







But the point seems to be this: When I speak of baptism saving, Peter says, I don't mean that the water, immersing the body and cleansing the flesh, is of any saving effect; what I mean is that, insofar as baptism is "an appeal to God for a good conscience," (or is "a pledge of a good conscience toward God"), it saves. Paul said in Romans 10:13, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - everyone who appeals to the Lord - will be saved." Paul does not mean that faith alone fails to save. He means that faith calls on God. That's what faith does. Now Peter is saying, "Baptism is the God-ordained, symbolic expression of that call to God. It is an appeal to God - either in the form of repentance or in the form of commitment.



What is Baptism?







Now this is fundamentally important in our understanding of what baptism is in the New Testament. James Dunn is right I think when he says that "1 Peter 3:21 is the nearest approach to a definition of baptism that the New Testament affords" (Baptism in the Holy Spirit, p. 219). What is baptism? Baptism is a symbolic expression of the heart's "appeal to God." Baptism is a calling on God. It is a way of saying to God with our whole body, "I trust you to take me into Christ like Noah was taken into the ark, and to make Jesus the substitute for my sins and to bring me through these waters of death and judgment into new and everlasting life through the resurrection of Jesus my Lord."







This is what God is calling you to do. You do not save yourself. God saves you through the work of Christ. But you receive that salvation through calling on the name of the Lord, by trusting him. And it is God's will all over the world and in every culture - no matter how simple or how sophisticated - that this appeal to God be expressed in baptism. "Lord, I am entering the ark of Christ! Save me as I pass through the waters of death!" Amen.

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 10:44 PM

Thank you guys and James! :applause:

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 10:45 PM

ARCH, I reposted what I had on your other thread, did you not read my post and the scripture and chapters I gave you? You said you wanted scriptures so I gave them to you, so what part do you not understand about water baptism? If you a trying to say that water baptism is required for salavtion and regenration YOUR ARE WRONG! and you don't spiritually understand what regenration is all about but i have explain it as simple as can be explained. Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit working on the inside of a believer cleaning the person up from the inside out.. its just tha simple.

I explain what God says in His word about water baptism and spiritaul baptisim, but you must be able to spiritual discern what God's word is saying by the Holy spirit and stop trying to fit your teachings and understanding into God 's word.

To prove to you that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation Paul was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit BEFORE he was baptized and so was Cornilius and eveyone in the book of Acts since you would like to use this.

You posted Acts chapter 22:16 as your prove... NO, this doesn't prove not one thing. Again, Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit that wshes away our sins, not wash... The redeeming blood that Jesus shed on the cross washes away our sins, not water.

Again, as I said Water baptism is symbolic of our commitment to Chirst where in we die to our sins, bury them in the water, and are resurrected unto a new life in Chirst.

Paul is saying in verse 16, get up, and be baptized, and be washed by the Holy Spirit (which mean be filled with the Holy Spirit, by calling on the name of the Lord (or in the name of the Lord. This verses does not prove no such thng that water baptism washing away our sin. If that is the case, then what does the blood do? Only the Holy Spirit regenrates us which means cleans us and washes away our sins on the inside and makes us anew in Christ.

God's word is spiritualll idscren by the Holy Spirit and cannot be carnally understand unless He reveals it to you.

Also James, what in the world is this tarticle talking about that you have posted... what has Peter and Noah and the flood have ot do with being water baptism, where is this notion found in the word of God?

The water is symbolic of the water thatc ame from Jesus side when he was on the cross, and has not one thing to do with the flood or Noah, but the death, burial and resurrection, and the washing being amde alive in Christ. Titus 3 tels us that the Holy Spirit washes us clean on the inside... where do you guys get this stuff, shooo ain't from revelation of the HOly Spriit with spirtual insight:laugh:... y'all's a mess from one thing to another, nothing sound whatsoever with your bad theology and interpretations of God's word:laugh::ROFL:...

Earlier post ARCH asked: ... Is Baptism regenerative.... simply Symbolic? Does Baptism "remove sin" and makes you "reborn"or is it just Symbolic? What does Scripture say?

Ella says: Arch, you have asked a great question. I will try to explain this in simple terms for biblical and spritiual understanding. And this is what Scriptures teaches us, so make sure you read the chapters I post, so you will better understand.

Romans Chapter 6

The BIble teaches two baptisms, One is spiritual which is done through the works of the Holy Spirit which is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second Baptism the BIbles teaches us is Water Baptism which is done when a person receives Chrsit into their life and is publicly baptized in water as a show of their rebirth in Christ byfaith.

The Bapitism of the Holy Spirit joins the new believer to Chirst when a person receives Jesus Christ at salvation the Holy Spirit immediately come into the heart of the new believer, and begans to cleans the believer from the inside out of all thier sins, this is the rebirth and what it means to be born again from above... this is called spiritual baptism as what happen on the day of Pentacost when the disciples received the Holy Spirit. This is also the baptism that Jesus speaks about in John chapter 3. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the regeneration process of cleansing, washing away sins, the sealing process by the Holy Spirit that takes place in a beleivers life, and the believer is overcome with the power of the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts are given.

The water baptism as Paul speaks about in Romans chapter 6, is water baptism which symbolicly connects the believer to Jesus Chirst's death, burial and resurrection. In that, when we are baptized in water this is called dying to our sins, immersed in water is called being buried, burying our sins as Jesus was buried in the grave, when we come up out of the water this is called our resurrection, just as Jesus was resurrected from the grave, we come up out of the water rasied alive in Christ a new creature, leaving our sins buried. Water baptism symbolizes this union, and seperates the believer from his/her old life and identifies us with being washed and cleansed by water and resurrected to live a new life in Christ.... although many who are baptised and are not truly committed to Christ, or turn from their wisked ways, go down a dry sinner and come up a water sinner...just had to add that, becasue its so true...

But when the Bible speaks of baptism it is either always speaking about water baptism, or baptism in the Holy Spirit, it depends on the text that is being spoken about.

Water Baptism publicly which identifies the believer with Christ death, burial and resurrection.

Spiritual Baptism, is spiritually and is thetotal work of the Holy Spirit when He Baptizes the believe in the power and spirit with spiritual gifts and set up His residence. This is the fire that a person feels on the inside when the Holy Spirit has baptized the believer...

Water baptism is the act of being immersed in water just as Jesus was in the gospels and John testifies of baptizing Him in Matthew chapter 3; Mark chapter 1; Luke chapter3; and John chapter 1.

This is as John speaks about as a testimony, and Jesus showed as an example for believers beiing water baptized, as well as the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when the Spirit of God fell upon Him as a dove...

Again, Water baptism is how the believer shows that he/she has experienced the reality of their changed ways and come to Christ by faith. Water baptism is also a choice of every person when they are saved, but it does not remove your sins nor can it saved you, but it is a command of Jesus Christ, which proves that you are truyl sincere in your commitment to Christ. But if you do not get baptized and you believe in Chirst, you will still go to heaven, as the theif on the cross did and he wasn't baptized.. because we are not saved by water baptism, we are saved by God's grace and faith to believe in Chirst.

However, in obedience to Chirst, Water baptism is the start of our new life in Christ, and every person who confesses and professes Christ should obey the command and be baptized.

Only the Holy Spirit can baptize us in His power, when we are coverted, this is His work in and through us in the regeneration process and we have no part in this except as Paul teaches us not to resist the in coming of the Holy Spirit in our life... Now, This is what scriptures teaches.

...as Paul points out in Romans chapter 6: 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2. By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3. Or don�t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

6. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin� 7. because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

Repent of your sins, and be baptised in WATER in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost! Amen!

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 10:52 PM

QUESTION: How do you regenerate a dead battery? ... you change it up over night...

This is the same as how the Holy Spirit regenerates us when we become born again. Before our new birth in Chirst we were dead in our sin, but when we receive Christ by faith to beive in Him and His death on the cross, the Holy Spirit come inside of us and makes us alive(regenrates) with His power.... He charges us up in the spiritual things of God.



Regeneration means to be born again, made alove restored amde anew, born of God from above The Holy Spirit makes a spiritual change inside of us, gives us power, and bring us into the knowledge , understanding and wisodm of who God and Christ really are thorugh His word.

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 15 Aug, 2011 10:55 PM

No no!!



The Bapitism of the Holy Spirit joins the new believer to Chirst when a person receives Jesus Christ at salvation the Holy Spirit.

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 16 Aug, 2011 09:31 AM

Baptisim in this verse Strongs G908 Bap~te~sma



1) immersion, submersion



a) of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed



b) of John's baptism, that purification rite by which men on [ confessing their sins were bound to �spiritual reformation�, ] obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up. This was valid Christian baptism, as this was the only baptism the apostles received and it is not recorded anywhere that they were ever rebaptised after Pentecost.



c) of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as [ commanded by Christ, ] by which one [ after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church. ]



In Rom 6:3, Paul states we are "baptised unto death" meaning that we are not only dead to our former ways, but they are buried. To return to them is as unthinkable for a Christian as for one to dig up a dead corpse! See also discussion of baptism under the previous Strong's number (907).



Bap-te-so Strongs G907



1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)



2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe



3) to overwhelm





xo

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 16 Aug, 2011 03:18 PM

Wow!



I present Scripture for you and



It Is Not Enough. Or



You Know Better what that Scripture REALLY says!



"You have Eyes...but do not see. Ears...but do not hear.



Water does NOTHING except wash away the Dirt.



Baptism with Water and THE HOLY SPIRIT



WASHES AWAY YOUR SINS!



REGENERATES.



But I suppose if God wanted you to "See" God would "Remove" your Veils.



You win...The Emperor HAS NEW Clothes!

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Baptism -- Regenerative or Symbolic?
Posted : 16 Aug, 2011 03:48 PM

:ROFL:...I thought the Emporier was naked...Maybe he took a Bath and then got a new Robe...:winksmile:...xo

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