Calvinist will tell you that they Believe in �Free Will� (most of them), yet when Pressed they will confess that what they mean is that you can make up �your own mind� but it still will be what God Wants for you (huh?).
The famed Calvinist Loraine Boettner asserts,
"God so controls the thoughts and wills of men that they freely [?] and willingly [?] do what He has planned for them to do."
Mankind has Free Will�Scripture Attests to it:
Matthew 23:37
New International Version (NIV)
37 �Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and
�you were not willing.�
Is Jesus playing Mind Games with us? Is Jesus Speaking from �the Side of His Mouth�? Is Jesus making us �Think� that we have Free Will�knowing that we really don�t?
I�ll cite one more example (there are more):
Joshua 24:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then
choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,
whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household,
we will serve the LORD.�
It sounds like CHOICES were asked to be made and Joshua MADE his CHOICE. Again�are we being �played� for Fools (God KNOWING that we �really� have no say in the matter).
Calvinist claim that God�s Will cannot be Challenged and that everything Happens because GOD WILLS it! They do not Understand that there are things God lets us say NO to. Things that God Wants for us�yet�God wants us to Cooperate WILLINGLY (not Forced to do it). Scripture is clear that man can disobey God to man�s own Ruin.
Isaiah 65:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 I will destine you for the sword,
and all of you will fall in the slaughter;
for
I called
but you did not answer,
I spoke
but you
did not listen.
You did evil in my sight
and
CHOSE
what displeases me.�
Once again�man made his OWN CHOICE (horrible choice, but of his own Free Will)�unless God was �messing� with our minds.
Calvinist will tell you that they Believe in �Free Will� (most of them), yet when Pressed they will confess that what they mean is that you can make up �your own mind� but it still will be what God Wants for you (huh?).
James replies:
That is completely wrong, and you have misunderstood what you have read.
We FALLEN....humans make decisions and chose to do all kinds of things. HOWEVER, because of THE FALL, mankinds will is enslaved to sin. And because of that NO ONE has the ability or will to repent and trust in Jesus.
There are 50 verses of Scripture that say this.
Arch said:
The famed Calvinist Loraine Boettner asserts,
"God so controls the thoughts and wills of men that they freely [?] and willingly [?] do what He has planned for them to do."
James replies:
Yes, of course.
Arch said:
Mankind has Free Will�Scripture Attests to it:
Matthew 23:37
New International Version (NIV)
37 �Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and
�you were not willing.�
James replies:
If they had a perfectly free will then at least SOME of them would have chosen to follow God.
But NONE of them did. That is NOT a sign of a free will, it is evidence of a will enslaved to sin.
Arch continues:
Is Jesus playing Mind Games with us? Is Jesus Speaking from �the Side of His Mouth�? Is Jesus making us �Think� that we have Free Will�knowing that we really don�t?
James replies:
In John 6 Jesus says TWICE: "No man CAN come to Me unless the Father draws them."
The second time He says it, the disciples get very discouraged, and say, "well, then who can be saved?"
The truth is Arch, you have never read the sayings of Jesus when it comes to this issue.
You should go BACK to what you were doing and just ask questions. Do you think The Reformation was just a bunch of people who did not know Scripture???
The Reason the Reformation happened was because of Rome's constant contradicting of Scripture.
Arch continues:
I�ll cite one more example (there are more):
Joshua 24:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then
choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,
whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household,
we will serve the LORD.�
It sounds like CHOICES were asked to be made and Joshua MADE his CHOICE. Again�are we being �played� for Fools (God KNOWING that we �really� have no say in the matter).
James replies:
1. just because God tells someone to choose, does NOT mean they have the ability.
If you CHOOSE, Arch, to give me one million dollars, I will build you a house. My offer is real and true, but YOU don't have the ability!
2. The Bible says OVER and OVER, that fallen mankind is born spiritually dead, and that it takes GOD, to put a new heart in a person ,and make them come alive spiritually.
Arch said:
Calvinist claim that God�s Will cannot be Challenged and that everything Happens because GOD WILLS it! They do not Understand that there are things God lets us say NO to. Things that God Wants for us�yet�God wants us to Cooperate WILLINGLY (not Forced to do it). Scripture is clear that man can disobey God to man�s own Ruin.
James replies:
Scripture is CLEAR that NO ONE seeks for God! Read Romans!
Paul says NO ONE seeks for God, and Jesus says NO ONE CAN!!
Isaiah 65:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 I will destine you for the sword,
and all of you will fall in the slaughter;
for
I called
but you did not answer,
I spoke
but you
did not listen.
You did evil in my sight
and
CHOSE
what displeases me.�
Once again�man made his OWN CHOICE (horrible choice, but of his own Free Will)�unless God was �messing� with our minds.
James replies:
Notice again, the choice was ALWAYS to disobey God!
If they had a perfectly free will, SOME of them would have chosen to follow God, but NONE of them did!
Arch said:
God has Given us Free Will.
James replies:
NOT ONE Scripture says this, and 20 say FALLEN man, has a will ENSLAVED to sin!!
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 8:43-45 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Arch, read the verse below, and ask yourself what reason did Jesus give as to why those people did not believe in Him?
Was it because they did not use their free will to choose, or because they were not of His sheep (the elect)?
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
"James replies: 1. just because God tells someone to choose, does NOT mean they have the ability."
So tell me James... why does God tell someone to choose Him [Joshua 24:15] if they don't have the ability to choose?
Why does God call a person [Isaiah 65:12] if that person does not have the ability to answer?
You can list your 50 verses stating that we have a will enslaved to sin with no ability to answer or choose God, but none answer those questions. In fact, your verses would make God look like a lunatic. Why on earth would you tell someone they cannot answer God as a sinner, and at the same time have God call that sinner who can't answer. :toomuch:
