Thread: The Perseverance Of The Saints - Is It Scriptual?
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The Perseverance Of The Saints - Is It Scriptual?
Posted : 23 Aug, 2011 01:51 AM
Calvinists believe that they cannot Lose their Salvation. They believe that they can Sin all they want to and Still go to Heaven! Their �bible� states:
"They whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved." (Westminster Confession, Chapter XVII, Section 1)
Scripture tells us differently:
Ezekiel 18:24
New International Version (NIV)
24 �But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
AND
Galatians 5:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
You have FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE!!! How can you ��fall away from grace�� if you Cannot Lose Your Salvation ?
Colossians 1:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ�s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation� 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
��if you continue in your faith,��
That word (IF) shows that you can Stop being Faithful...that there is a Consequence for Not Continuing in FAITH!
Revelation 2:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor�s crown.
�...Be faithful, even to the point of death,��
Here again�if you cannot Lose your Salvation�why the need to �...Be faithful, even to the point of death,��?
1 Corinthians 4:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful.
Once more�why the need to be Proven Faithful (��must prove faithful��) if we cannot Lose Our Salvation?
Ephesians 1:1
New International Version (NIV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To God�s holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:
More �Faithful�
Acts 14:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. �We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,� they said.
��remain true to the faith��
I am sure I can find more Verses!
No�my Brothers and Sisters�Christ Promised us that if we Believed in HIM
�We Would Be Saved!�
Christ never Promised us it would be Easy!
We all need to Pick Up Our Crosses everyday and WALK with CHRIST!
Veering neither right nor left�but staying On Course and if we do Fall (and we will)�we are to get back up and get back On TRACK!
Do Not believe the Calvinists�their Gospel is False�Search Scripture�it does not Lie.
My Brothers and Sisters�God does Not Lie�His Word does not Lie! Man can Lie�But Not God:
Romans 3:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:
�So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.�[a]
TRUST in God�s WORD
Titus 1:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
Philippians 2:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed�not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence�continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Does that Sound Like we Cannot LOSE Our Salvation?
��continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,��
My Brothers and Sisters there are more Scriptures just like these. What is Important here is to Realize that Man cannot work his way Into Heaven. St. Paul is not saying in Philippians 2:12 that Man can �Work� his way into Heaven. No�Paul is saying that man can�by
Acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Obeying Him, He will save us from our past sins.
In addition, in order to Stay Saved, we must continue to
Serve Him Faithfully.
As we do this, we are said to be working out our own salvation "with fear and trembling."
"For," as the next verse says,
"it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
The Christian works out his own Salvation by reverently and carefully following the Lord's Will. In doing so, he
I know this is a controversial topic and I always thought once saved, always saved. I believed that one could back slide and fall away from God, but yet they are still saved, however, it does make sense what you state her with the scriptural references to back it up. I'm not really sure now.
Romans 8:28-39: "We know that all things God works for the good of those:rolleyes: who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those:rolleyes: He predestined, He also called; those He called He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us:rolleyes:, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all--how will He not also , along with him, graciously give us all things?Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us:rolleyes: from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...No in all these things we are more then conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels or demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us:rolleyes: form the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.":applause:
John 6:39,44: Jesus says, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall ****LOSE NONE**** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day...No one can come to Me **UNLESS* the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!"
John 1:13,14: To all who received Him {Jesus}..He gave the right to became children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of *HUMAN DECISION** or of a husband's will, but BORN OF GOD!"
Ephesians 2:6-10: And God {The Father} raised us up:rolleyes: with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is be *GRACE* {Unmerited favor} you have been saved, through faith--and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the {100%} *GIFT* of God--**NOT BY WORKS**, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!"
There will be two comings of Jesus on the same Last Day. The first will be **FOR** His saints and the second will be **WITH** His saints just after the Marriage Feast of the Lamb as per Revelation 19:8-20 and Revelation 17:14 "They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings-- and **WITH HIM* will be His **CALLED **, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!":applause:
God only *CALLS** and CHOOSES** those He knows will be **FAITHFUL**.
Matthew 13:18-23: Jesus says, "Listen to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it {Such as all Roman Catholics}, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy: But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution {See Matt 24:9-13} comes because of the Word, he quickly falls away. the one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth {The Prosperity Gospel} choke it making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the Word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown!"
He is one of the **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL**!!:angel:
Do you want to dig Calvin's body up and crush his bones into powder and cast it before the four winds or feed them to a pack of dogs? I believe once saved always saved. BUT, if you sin there is a price to be paid for that sin --I know I have paid it- God can not protect you with His grace while you are in rebellion(sin) He withdraws His grace and you are allowed to feel the full fury of the power of Satan-- but Good watches and waits-- when He knows you are ready to turn from your sin (trust me He knows ) He reaches down and delivers you and restores you -covers you once again with His grace( forgiven) .
As to salvation and working out your salvation. Once you are born again you are saved --that can not be changed- but your relationship with the Lord in this world is determined by your righteousness. As you grow in the faith and righteousness grows your relationship with Christ deepens -- more is expected of you-- just the other day the Lord spoke to me and asked me "Steve will you die for me?" A disturbing question to say the least - I considered His question for a moment and said yes. "Yes, Lord I will lay my life down for you." ( It was not long after that that I received a vision of myself being nailed to a cross.) Why did He ask me that question? Because He has something for me to do and He needed to know what my level of commitment was --that is to say where I thought I was spiritually. This to me is working out my salvation. Not doing works to preserve my salvation , but working in the world to demonstrate to the world that I am saved and as a saved man these are my salvation works. I am not sure If I was able to communicate my point clearly enough but I tried.
No such thing but the common fruit of a Calvinist is they wholeheartedly resist the Gospel, there is no gospel in calvinism. I never said anything about burning anyone at the stake. Simply put you can not get life out of death, they obviously oppose one another.
You made your Point Succinctly and Eloquently...rare in this Forum. Yes my Brother...I understood you Precisely.
We do not "Clock in" to do God's Work...in expectance of being "Paid".
We "...work out our Salvation.." with God's Grace Strengthening us and with God Forever watching Over us...with Jesus ALWAYS at our Side...ready to Help us and with THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US...as Our Rudder!
