Author	Thread: UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list)
Admin	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 04:03 PM UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION Because of Adam's transgression, his descendants enter the world as guilty, lost sinners. As fallen creatures, they have no desire to have fellowship with the creator. Left to their own choices, they inevitably follow the god of this world. It would have been perfectly just for God to have left all men in their sin and misery and to have shown mercy to none. God was under no obligation whatsoever to provide salvation for anyone. The doctrine of election declares that God, before the foundation of the world, chose certain individuals from among the fallen members of Adam's race to be the objects of His undeserved favor. These and these only , He purposed to save. God could have chosen to save all men (for he had the power and authority to do so) or He could have chosen to save none (for He was under no obligation to save any)--but He did neither. Instead he chose to save some and to exclude others. His choice of particular sinners unto salvation was not based upon any foreseen act or response on the part of those selected, but was based solely on His own good pleasure and sovereign will. It is not within the creature's jurisdiction to call into question the justice of of the creator for not choosing every one to salvation. It is enough to know that the judge of the earth has done right. It should, however, be kept in mind that if God had not graciously chosen a people for himself and sovereignly determined to provide salvation for them and apply it to them, NONE WOULD BE SAVED. The fact that he did this for some, to the exclusion of others, is in no way unfair to the latter group, unless of course one maintains that God was under obligation to provide salvation for all sinners---a position which the Bible utterly rejects. The act of election ITSELF saved no one; what it did was to mark out certain individuals for salvation. Consequently, the doctrine of election must not be divorced from the doctrines of human guilt, redemption, and regeneration or else it will be distorted and mis- represented. In other words, if it is to be understood correctly, the Father's act of election must be related to the redeeming work of the Son, who gave himself to save the elect and to the renewing work of the Spirit who brings the elect to faith in Christ! A. General statements showing that God has an elect people, that He pre-destined them to salvation, and thus to eternal life. Deuteronomy 10:14,15: Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it; yet THE LORD SET HIS HEART IN LOVE upon your fathers and CHOSE their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as at this day. Psalm 33:12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has CHOSEN as his heritage! Psalm 65:4: Blessed is he whom thou dost CHOOSE and bring near, to dwell in thy courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, thy holy temple! Haggai 2:23: "On that day, says the Lord of hosts, I will take you O Zerubbabel my servant, the son of Shealtiel, says the Lord, and make you like a signet ring; for I have CHOSEN you, says the Lord of hosts." Matthew 11:27: "...no one knows the Father except the Son and any one whom the Son CHOOSES to reveal him." Matthew 22:14: "For many are called, but few are CHOSEN." Matthew 24:22,24,31: And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the ELECT those days will be shortened...For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible even the ELECT... and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and the will gather HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other. Luke 18:7: And will not God vindicate HIS ELECT, who cry out to him day and night? Romans 8:28-30: WE know that in everything God works for Good with those that love him, who are CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE. for those whom he foreknew he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:33: Who shall bring any charge against God's ELECT? Romans 11:28: As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. Colossians 3:12: Put on then, as God's CHOSEN ONES, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness,... 1 Thessalonians 5:9: For God has not DESTINED US for wrath, BUT TO OBTAIN SALVATION through our Lord Jesus Christ. Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of GOD'S ELECT and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness... 1 Peter 1:1,2: To the exiles of the dispersion...CHOSEN and DESTINED by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obediance to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood... 1 Peter 2:8,9...For they stumble because they disobey the word, as they were DESTINED to do. But you are a CHOSEN RACE, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who CALLED you out of the darkness into his marvelous light. Revelation 17: 14: "They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and those with him are CALLED and CHOSEN and faithful." B. Before the foundation of the world, God chose particular individuals unto salvation. His selection was NOT BASED ON ANY FORESEEN REPONSE OR ACT PERFORMED BY THOSE CHOSEN. Faith and good works are the result, not the cause of God's choice. 1. God did the choosing. Mark 13:20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of THE ELECT, WHOM HE CHOSE, he shortened the days. 2. God's choice was made before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4: Even as he CHOSE us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and blameless before him. (see: 2 Thess. 1:4 and 2 Thess. 2:13 quoted below) 3. God chose particular individuals unto salvation-their names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8: And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been WRITTEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. Revelation 17:8: "...and the dwellers on earth whose NAMES have not been WRITTEN in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come." 4. God's choice was not based upon any foreseen merit residing in those whom He chose, nor was it based on any foreseen good works performed by them. Romans 9:11-13: Though they were NOT YET BORN AND HAD DONE NOTHING EITHER GOOD OR BAD, in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might continue, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS but because of his CALL, she was told, "The elder will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Romans 9:16: So it depends NOT UPON MAN'S WILL OR EXERTION, but upon God's MERCY. Romans 10:20: "...I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me." 1 Corinthians 1:27-29: God CHOSE what is FOOLISH in the world to shame the wise, God CHOSE what is WEAK in the world to shame the strong, God CHOSE what is LOW and DESPISED in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, SO THAT NO HUMAN BEING MIGHT BOAST IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. 2 Timothy 1:9: ....who saved us and called us with a holy calling not in virtue of OUR WORKS but in virtue of HIS OWN PURPOSE and the GRACE which he gave us in Christ Jesus AGES AGO. 5. Good works are the result, not the ground, of predestination. Ephesians 2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 1:12: We who first hoped in Christ have been DESTINED AND APPOINTED to live for the praise of his glory. John 15:16: You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU and APPOINTED YOU that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 6. God's choice was not based upon foreseen faith. Faith is the result and therefore the evidence of God's election, not the cause or ground of His choice. Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life BELIEVED. Acts 18:27: ...he greatly helped those who THROUGH GRACE HAD BELIEVED. Philippians 1:29: For it has been GRANTED to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only BELIEVE in him but also suffer for his sake. Philippians 2:12,13: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; FOR GOD IS AT WORK IN YOU, BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE. 1 Thessalonians 1:4,5: For WE KNOW, brethren beloved by god, that he has chosen you; FOR OUR GOSPEL CAME TO YOU not only in word, but also IN POWER and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT and WITH FULL CONVICTION. 2 Thessalonians 2:13,14: ...GOD CHOSE YOU FORM THE BEGINNING TO BE SAVED, THROUGH sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF IN THE TRUTH. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ James 2:5:...Has not God CHOSEN those who are poor in the world TO BE RICH IN FAITH and HEIRS OF THE KINGDOM which he has promised to those who love him? 7. It is by faith and good works that one confirms his calling and election. 2 Peter 1:5-11: For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.......Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous TO CONFIRM YOUR CALL AND ELECTION, for if you do this you will never fall........ C. Election is not salvation but is UNTO salvation. Just as the president elect does not become the president of the united states UNTIL he is inaugurated, those chosen unto salvation are not saved UNTIL they are regenerated by the Spirit and justified by faith in Christ. Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. THE ELECT OBTAINED IT, but the rest were hardened. 2 Timothy 2:10: Therefore I endure everything for the sake of THE ELECT, that they also MAY OBTAIN THE SALVATION which in Christ Jesus goes with eternal glory. From Romans 16:7 it is clear that men are not actually "in Christ" until their conversion. D. Election was based on the sovereign, distinguishing mercy of Al- mighty God. It was not on man's will but God's will that determined which sinners would be shown mercy and saved. Exodus 33:19: "...I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Deuteronomy 7:6,7: For you are a people holy to the LOrd your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession out of all the peoples of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love upon you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples. Matthew 20:15: "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me?..." Romans 9:10-24.......I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion, So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.....He has mercy upon whomever he wills...Has the potter no right over the clay...Vessels of mercy which he has prepared beforehand... ( one of my favorite Christian rock bands is "Jars of Clay"!) See also Romans 11:4-6 Romans 11:33-36 Ephesians 1:5 E. The doctrine of Election is but a part of the much broader Biblical doctrine of God's absolute sovereignty. The Scriptures not only teach that God predestined certain individuals unto eternal life, but that all events, both great and small, come about as the result of God's eternal decree. The Lord God rules over heaven and earth with absolute control; NOTHING COMES TO PASS APART FROM HIS ETERNAL PURPOSE. 1 Chronicles 29:10-12: Therefore David blessed the Lord in the presence of all the assembly; and David said; "Blessed art thou O Lord, the God of Israel our Father, for ever and ever. Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and power, and glory, and the victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine, thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted above all. Both riches and honor come from thee, and THOU RULEST OVER ALL. IN thy hand are power and might; and in thy hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. JOB 42:1,2: Then Job answered the Lord: "I know that thou canst do all things, and that no purpose of thine can be thwarted." Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases. Psalm 135:6: Whatever the Lord pleases he does, in heaven and on earth, in the sea and all deeps. Isaiah 14:24,27: The Lord of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand....For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?" Isaiah 46:9-11: "Remember the former things of old; for I am God, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand and I will accomplish my purpose, calling a bird of prey from the East, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it. " Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord God! It is thou who hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thy outstretched arm! nothing is too hard for thee. Daniel 4:35: All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing; and he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him "What doest thou?" Matthew 19:26: "...with God all things are possible." Sincerely, James Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 05:34 PM View Profile History UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 04:03 PM UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION Because of Adam's transgression, his descendants enter the world as guilty, lost sinners. As fallen creatures, they have no desire to have fellowship with the creator. Left to their own choices, they inevitably follow the god of this world View Profile History God Of Hate: Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 03:57 PM PhillipJohn said: Well then by your own words you say Jesus is satan, it is not me that says it. James replies: Show where and who said that "Jesus is Satan". PhillipJohn said: I was praying the other day and There was a group of people all full of life and expectation, they where hearing the word's of life by one full of life preaching to them, and off to the side was one all dejected, head down with no hope for the father of lies had sown the lie unto him that the message was only for the elect, it would be very interesting to watch the Calvinist response to their God telling them your son, your daughter they names was not in the Hat. James replies: So, let me get this straight..... You are at your Pentecostal church, and everyone was happy, except for one person, and that person was believed that whatever the pastor was saying, was only for the elect, and this guy was sure he was not the elect? of course, no one can back up your story, and thousands of People in Reformed churches accept Christ everyday. I don't want to hear your stories phillipjohn, I want you to SHOW HOW The doctrine of unconditional election is wrong, and USE Scripture to do so. All these histronics by you just make me think you are superstitious and emotionally driven, and that you don't understand The Bible very well at all. I will now start a new thread called: Unconditional Election, and I will give the Scriptures that support it. Drop the crazy coniption fit routine, and just deal with Scripture. In Christ, James Here is one scripture that testiy's against your whole post: It is one thing to fit your opinion to the word of God and add to it and take away from it, and it is entirely different to do just what Jesus said and believe him according to his word. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 9 � Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 � (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara�s womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 � Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 1 � Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 � For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. In this context Jesus left to the church he gave us a perfect example of a man doing just what you said he can not do. Now I know the pattern is to ignore scripture that clearly refutes what Calvinist profess as truth, Know this Jesus will always give you examples of his truth's to be verified in the word of God. There is a whole book full of examples just like this for a average elementary student to comprehend, but one has to be willing to accept the truth. Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 06:38 PM PhillipJohn, The verses you just posted are Paul teaching that we can only be saved by faith in Jesus. Paul teaches that no one has ever been saved except by faith, and he starts by showing that Abraham was saved by faith. If you agree to this, then we agree that man is saved by faith in Jesus alone. That is why we preach to people to repent and trust in Jesus. What you are wrong about is that Fallen mankind has the ability to believe in Jesus. Jesus says in John 6 that "No one can come to me unless the Father draws them." Paul says that "No one seeks for God", and that natural man CANNOT understand the things of God. Your view of mankind is TOO HIGH. It takes GOD to save a man, and if God does not show a man mercy, by making him come alive spiritually then, that man will NEVER repent and trust in Jesus. Because ALL FALLEN MANKIND is totally spiritually dead and will never trust in Christ, GOD DECIDED before the world was made, who He would save. He chose people not because of anything they would do, but only because HE decided to choose them. He chose more people than we can count, and all the verses in the first post on this thread, say just that. Please go back and read the verses of Scripture again....... In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 07:08 PM James pasted - "The act of election ITSELF saved no one; what it did was to mark out certain individuals for salvation. God could have chosen to save all men (for he had the power and authority to do so) or He could have chosen to save none (for He was under no obligation to save any)--but He did neither. Instead he chose to save some and to exclude others." He loves me? He loves me not? He loves me? He loves me not? He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE. -1 John 4:8 God creates a race of people, some of which are created out of love and He chooses them to spend eternity with Him, while the rest can just go to hell. - Calvinistic Unconditional Election Belief James pasted some more - "The fact that he did this for some, to the exclusion of others, is in no way unfair to the latter group, unless of course one maintains that God was under obligation to provide salvation for all sinners---a position which the Bible utterly rejects." Obligation? No. Love? Yes. John 3:16 Does the Bible "utterly reject" that Christ' death provides salvation for all sinners? Absolutely not! For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. - 1 Timothy 2:3-6 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. - 1 John 2:2 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. - Hebrews 2:9 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:6-8 Show me James, in each of the above verses I've listed, how the Bible "utterly rejects" that Christ' death does indeed provide salvation for all. Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 07:38 PM James do we need to break it down for you? Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 07:43 PM Saved if you read his response to my post he utterly exposed himself to the uttermost, of course Abraham was not a man under the new covenant and according to Calvinism could not have faith but yet he just admitted Abraham was saved. James the scripture clearly reveal an example of bible faith and then we want to point out quite distinctly Abraham was a man under the law of sin and death and he was able to believe God as was all old testament saints. Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 08:43 PM James I must Admit that this Tactic that I liken to what The Terrorists do when they Hide amongst the Women and Children is somewhat Effective. What I am Referring to is where you plop a Plethora of Verses (many not even close to Referencing your Point) so as to try and �wear down� anyone that Disagrees with your New Gospel. I mean�I have to Read every one of your verses�even the ones that have No Bearing on the Point of your New Gospel. Take for Instance: Deuteronomy 10:10-15 New International Version (NIV) 10 Now I had stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights, as I did the first time, and the LORD listened to me at this time also. It was not his will to destroy you. 11 �Go,� the LORD said to me, �and lead the people on their way, so that they may enter and possess the land I swore to their ancestors to give them.� Fear the LORD 12 And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the LORD�s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good? 14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. 15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your ancestors and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations�as it is today. This is Simply Moses speaking to Israel and telling them that they are �God�s Chosen People�. That God has Chosen them ��above all nations��. That God Chose Abraham to be The Father of a Nation and God�s Chosen People. Surely you Jest James (no�I don�t�and don�t call me Shirley). This is One of your Scriptural Verses that Speaks about God selecting some to go to Heaven and others to BURN in Hell? This is Your First Choice? Need I read any further? Why don�t you just give up? This is Your LEAD SCRIPTURE? �Boys and Girls�can you say LAME?� But�let�s move on�this becomes Hilarious. Your Second Verse Psalm 33:8-12 New International Version (NIV) 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him. 9 For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm. 10 The LORD foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. 11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. 12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance. Again this is Speaking about Abraham�s Children (Israel)� ��the people he (God) chose for his inheritance.� What is of More Interest is Verse 8 ��8 Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him�.� Why would�all the earth�(have to)�fear the LORD? Or�all the people of the world revere him (God)? If God meant for just a Select Few to have Salvation? Is God having some sort of �CRUEL JOKE� on our Eternal Souls? This is not The Loving God I have Come to Know and LOVE! One More Psalm 65:4 New International Version (NIV) 4 Blessed are those you choose and bring near to live in your courts! We are filled with the good things of your house, of your holy temple. Now this one is a good one�being a Song there is �Artistic License� being used�which makes it difficult to ascertain why those words were chosen. My guess would be as a Master or King Chooses Whom he wants to Live at Court with Him. The Key Point though is that nowhere in this Scripture does it say that ��some will Burn in Hell while�some will Party in Heaven.� I would have chosen this Verse to have Led off with. So Far James I score this James (Calvinism) ZERO�Scripture THREE! Do I have to read more? OK...One more Haggai 2:20-23 New International Version (NIV) Zerubbabel the LORD�s Signet Ring 20 The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: 21 �Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I am going to shake the heavens and the earth. 22 I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother. 23 ��On that day,� declares the LORD Almighty, �I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,� declares the LORD, �and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,� declares the LORD Almighty.� Nice try James (actually this was WEAK). Are you running out of Scriptures so soon? These verses Speak to how God chose Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel and governor of Judah to be �God�s SEAL� as a Sign that what He does comes from God�ordered by God. Sorry James�nothing here about Elected Ones. That�s It! I do not wish to read anymore. I think wasting my time reading these Four was ENOUGH�don�t you think? What a waste of time! Sad Really. Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 08:50 PM PhillipJohn said: Saved if you read his response to my post he utterly exposed himself to the uttermost, of course Abraham was not a man under the new covenant and according to Calvinism could not have faith but yet he just admitted Abraham was saved. James replies: 1. Paul taught in Romans that NO ONE HAS EVER been saved EXCEPT BY FAITH ALONE. 2. since The Fall, you know the part of the Bible you Arminians pretend didn't happen, NO ONE has had the ability to have faith, because they are born spiritually DEAD. 3. GOD CHOSE Abraham. Read the text!!! Abraham did NOT choose God, GOD CHOSE ABRAHAM. PhillipJohn continues: James the scripture clearly reveal an example of bible faith and then we want to point out quite distinctly Abraham was a man under the law of sin and death and he was able to believe God as was all old testament saints. James replies: God chose Abraham, and made him come alive spiritually. Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. GOD Chose Abraham. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Scripture list) Posted : 25 Aug, 2011 08:58 PM James I am very aware of the text it is nothing to do with election, it has nothing to do with choosing, it has everything to do with a man before the Resurrection, demonstrating as the word of God teaches, bible faith, faith has nothing to do with god choosing Faith is an act of man's will. Post Reply