When I first encountered Reformed theology I completely rejected it. For nearly two years I fought against it with every possible argument I could conceive of. It wasn�t until I embarked upon a journey through the Scriptures that I was confronted by the biblical teaching of God�s love for His people. At the forefront of my argument against Reformed theology was my desire to defend the biblical doctrine of God. It had been my contention, considering verses such as John 3:16, that the saving love of God had been manifest to all people without exception. That is to say, I did not believe that God�s love was demonstrated in varying degrees. According to my presuppositions concerning the character of God, I believed there was no difference between God�s love for the sinner and His love for the saint.
As I carefully contrived every argument against Reformed doctrine, I was frustrated time and again when it came to the Bible�s teaching about God�s special, saving love for His people. This perplexed me. How could a loving God not love everyone in the same way?
Towards the culmination of my study of the Scriptures, I joined a group from my church on a missions trip to Haiti. While there, a friend from the church shared about a recent experience she had had with her hair stylist who was a practicing homosexual. As she shared about her ongoing conversations with her hair stylist, she explained enthusiastically that she just keeps telling him that God loves him unconditionally, to which he would usually respond, �I know God loves me just the way I am.� To him, such a response was perfectly reasonable. To her, such a response was perfectly acceptable. To me, such a response was perfectly atrocious.
Afterwards, I asked her a very simple question: �How can you be so certain that God loves your homosexual friend unconditionally?� I went on briefly to explain what I had come to understand about the Bible�s teaching concerning God�s special love for His people, namely, that although God does indeed love all of His creatures in some way, He unconditionally loves only those who are His children in Christ. What is more, I asked, �if God unconditionally loves your homosexual hair stylist why would he ever consider repenting and believing on Christ? If God loves him just the way he is, why should he surrender his life to Christ?� That night, hours after our conversation, I was summoned by our pastor to follow him outside the mission walls for a little talk. Based on the conversation I had with my friend earlier that day, I was charged to be a �heretical Calvinist.� After fifteen minutes, and after many tears, I was fired from my staff position and stripped of all responsibility that very night.
When I returned from Haiti, I packed my books, and with great sorrow in my heart, I left the church in which I had become a Christian. Soon after, I began an extensive study on the love of God in the Johannine corpus. I immersed myself in John�s gospel account, his epistles, and the book of Revelation, attempting to provide the biblical definition of God�s love according to the apostle John. The biblical teaching about God and His love for His people burst forth from the pages of Scripture, and by God�s grace I finally came to grips with the doctrines of grace as biblically defined by Reformed theology.
John�s first epistle demonstrates the clear distinction between those who are in Christ and those who are of the world. At the end of 1 John chapter 2, John calls his recipients �little children� (v. 28). Then, at the beginning of chapter 3, John reminds the children of God of His love for them: �See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are� (3:1a). In verse 10, John goes on to explain, �By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.� Further, in verse 16, John writes of the love of God in the death of Christ: �By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us.�
Perhaps the most well-known passage about God�s attribute of love is 1 John 4:8: �God is love.� Too often, however, this three-word phrase is stripped from its immediate context in which John expressly defines God�s special, saving love for His people. Usually, this verse is used as a proof text for the unconditional love of God for all people without exception. However, as John clearly explains, the unconditional love of God is only manifested to those who are in Jesus Christ: �In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins� (vv. 9�10). �So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him� (v. 16). �We love because he first loved us� (v. 19).
During my journey to Reformed theology, it was the doctrine of God�s saving love that convinced me of God�s electing grace, and it is the love of God that continues to sustain my life in Christ.
It is Sad�how Easily Christians are Led Away from God and His Word�when they Depend on Their Own Interpretations of Scripture and on their Own Higher faculties.
She Read Scripture�yet she Saw what She Wanted to SEE�what she NEEDED to see�in order to Justify Her Own Beliefs.
Scripture Clearly says:
1 John 4:19-21
New International Version (NIV)
19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
��21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.�
God Gave us this COMMAND! Why would God COMMAND us to do something that God Himself will not do? Why would God Command us to LOVE our Brothers and Sisters�if God Himself does not LOVE all of Mankind Equally?
My Brothers and Sisters�we have The Church as Our Shepherd here on earth to Guide us and Keep us from Straying and making these Incorrect Interpretations.
Some of Think we Know Better than what has been True since Christ Taught His Apostles.
Be Careful Whom you Choose as your earthly�Spiritual Shepherd.
I find it bizarre that we have a Statue worshiping PAPIST, commenting on this thread.
That being said, I would like share my personal path towards Reformed theology, and Calvinism.
I did not grow up in a Christian home, or even know any Christians before God saved me.
I am 50 now, and God saved me when I was 25. I went to the First Baptist church, and became a member. I was sitting in church, waiting for the service to start and an elderly man came up behind me, and said, "You oughta read Romans, there is a lot of meat in the soup in Romans.."
So, after church that day, I went home and read Romans.
Now, when I got to the 9th chapter, I read it, and of course the part about God choosing whom He was going to save, and how it was right that the potter had the right to do with the clay as He wished.
When I read that I just shrugged my shoulders and thought:
"Well, God has a right to do with His creation as He pleases."
And I just kept reading. It was no big deal to me, and I did not get angry about it, because I just believed God DOES have the right to do with His creation as He pleases.
Now, at that time I had never heard the term "Calvinism", but I just read and ACCEPTED that GOD is the one who saves, and "He Has mercy on whom He will have mercy."
So, I accepted what is called "unconditional Election", or the letter 'U' in the "TULIP".
Now, that was many years ago, and I think about 20% of Christians get angry with the idea of God being sovereign in salvation, but, they need to humble themselves, and ACCEPT what is CLEARLY written.
I have read and studied church history, and theology, widely and deeply, and I can say without a doubt that Reformed theology is the most accurate that exists.
The Doctrines of Grace are foundational, and BASIC teaching in Scripture, and they are so important to me, because I know that God's love towards me is not vague and impotent, but rather all powerful and precise. If you are in Christ, it is because God showed you mercy, and you deserve Hell, but God CHOSE to show YOU mercy specifically, and YOU ARE HIS!
You cannot lose your salvation, because YOU didn't get it in the first place!
Salvation is ALL of God. It is TOTALLY by Grace. I know Arminians think they saved themselves by their supposed free will decision, but that is a LIE.
The truth will make you MUCH more humble, and MUCH more confident that you are SECURE in His love towards you.
God Knows your heart and God Hears your Lies. You know I do not Worship statues�yet you attempt to influence others into believing that I do�it is quite Sad�Really.
I have a Question. If God Elected you and God did this before you were born�why did God Wait until you were 25 to �Save� you. I mean�why wait so long? You�d think that since God Loved you so much...He�d want you to know the truth as soon as possible�say�when you were 12 or so. Did God elect your parents?
I was going to comment on why God placed you in the wrong church�but then I had to check if Baptists were Calvinists and what I found was WILD!
You guys can�t even agree on what lies or parts of The New Gospel you want to believe! There are so many variations of Calvinism�wow�this has to be just what Christ Wanted�Right?
There are�what half-a-dozen variations of Calvinism
. Hyper-Calvinism
Beliefs: God is the author of sin ----The Gospel should only be preached to the elect ---- Belief in the five points is a prerequisite for true salvation
2. Ultra High Calvinism
Beliefs: That the elect are in some sense eternally justified ---- A denial of: The Well� Meant Offer (what the heck is that?) ---- Common Grace (HUH?) ---- God has no love for the non-elect.
3. High Calvinism
Beliefs: That God in no sense desires to save the reprobate ---- Most deny the Well-Meant Offer (I have to find out what this is!) ---- Supralapsarian (O Boy! Whatever that means) viewing God�s decrees ---- All hold to limited atonement ---- Most believe in particular grace and see the atonement as sufficient only for the elect.
4. Moderate Calvinism
Beliefs: That God does in some sense desires to save the reprobate ---- Infralapsarian (Yippee!) in viewing God�s decrees ---- Affirms Common Grace.
5. Low Calvinism
Beliefs: That Christ died for all in a legal sense, so one can speak of Christ dying for the non-elect ---- That God has two distinct wills ---- Affirms the Well-Meant Offer and Common Grace,
6. Lutheranism
Beliefs: That Calvinist over emphasize God Sovereignty over man�s responsibility ---- That Christ died for all in legal sense ---- that some are predestined on to life but none are predestined onto death ---- That the sacraments are means of grace regardless of one�s faith
7. American Baptist
Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom ---- that God�s knowledge of future is based on His foreknowledge ---- That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved ---- Once a persons believes the gospel, he is eternally secure ---- Rejects Calvinism, some would even call it heretical.
8. Arminianism
Beliefs: That God has given man libertarian freedom ---- that God�s knowledge of future is solely based on His foreknowledge ---- That Christ died for all and desires all to be saved ---- A person can fall from the state of grace i.e. lose ones salvation, since it is our free will that chooses Christ at conversion.
Which one did God elect you to�James?
This is just like man�to go through the Cafeteria of Religion and place on his plate what he wants to believe�what �tastes good� to him�what �looks� good�what �feels� good and for �desert��what he would like to �be� in religion�so man �Creates� his own religion.
This is not new�James. This has been going on since The Beginning. God Gives Mankind Standards to Live Up To. Mankind finds it Difficult Living Up to those Standards�so Mankind
Lowers those Standards and creates some of his own.
To which one of those Calvinist factions do you belong to James? I KNOW you will not answer this question�because you do not want to be more embarrassed then you already are.
Supralapsarian� expialidocious!
PS I�ve looked further into what Supralapsarian means�check this out! It means that God Decided before Adam and Eve Sinned (Man�s Fall) that God would
choose some to receive eternal life and reject all others. So a supralapsarian would say that the reprobate (non-elect) vessels of wrath fitted for destruction were first ordained to that role, and then the means by which they fell into sin was ordained. In other words,
supralapsarianism suggests that God's decree of election logically preceded His decree to permit Adam's fall�so that their damnation is first of all an act of divine sovereignty, and only secondarily an act of divine justice." (http://www.theopedia.com/Supralapsarianism)
By the way�was this the Scripture that Changed Your Life?
Romans 9:6-22
New International Version (NIV)
God�s Sovereign Choice
6 It is not as though God�s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham�s children. On the contrary, �It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.�[a] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God�s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham�s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: �At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.�[b]
10 Not only that, but Rebekah�s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad�in order that God�s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls�she was told, �The older will serve the younger.�[c] 13 Just as it is written: �Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.�[d]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
�I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.�[e]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God�s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: �I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.�[f] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: �Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?� 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? �Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, �Why did you make me like this?��[g] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath�prepared for destruction?
I do not know what your Bible says�but this Scripture Speaks to the fact that
Man cannot Dictate to God to Whom God
CAN OR CANNOT HAVE MERCY ON!
God is saying that��I Created You���I Decide Whom I Will have Mercy on��not YOU (mankind).
It Astounds me that from this you got all that you now believe (your New Gospel)!
There had to be someone filling you with all those Lies that you now believe.
I checked the King James version to see if it read differently
Romans 9:21-22
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
(In your own words James) �Now, at that time I had never heard the term "Calvinism", but I just read and ACCEPTED that GOD is the one who saves, and "He Has mercy on whom He will have mercy."
So, I accepted what is called "unconditional Election", or the letter 'U' in the "TULIP".� (end)
How on Earth!...did you come up with "unconditional Election" from reading that Scripture? James�fess up�there was more than just reading Scripture�come on�there was someone whispering in your ear�you can tell us.
James�there had to be more than that�there Had To BE!!! There is no way that you or ANYONE can come up with "unconditional Election" from just reading Romans!
But�hey! I still want to know if God elected your parents? By the way�how does God do it�you know�decide? Does He use some Big Hat and tosses everybody�s name in?
Also�the ones that God has Damned for �eternity� in hell�God has to Cause them to Sin in order to be able to send them to hell. Isn�t that like the police planting drugs in your car and then busting you for transporting drugs across state lines? I Mean�if God causes Everything that happens�?
Does God Really do that?
Did God elect your parents too? �Just asking�is all�
When we stubborn, unregenerate, measly, non repentant, and sinful humans believe we who have violated God�s Moral laws have the right, and a free will, to override God and choose Him and grant ourselves salvation, we make ourselves a God, because we believe we can checkmate God and that He doesn�t have the power to do anything about it. Nor would He be Sovereign with the power to choose whom He wants to save. When one believes he or she can checkmate God they are on VERY dangerous ground.
You and James are �linked� with �Calvin�s Chains� attaching you to each other and your God Calvin! You both have No Shame and continue to �Spew� your Lies.
(your words) ��to override God and choose Him and grant ourselves salvation�� (end)
God cannot be �Overridden��there is no power on earth or in Heaven or Anywhere�that can Challenge God. God GRANTS Man�FREE WILL. How many Times must I repeat that? How many Ways must I EXPLAIN that ti you and all Calvinists?
God in His INFINITE LOVE and God�because He wants a Mutual�Loving�Affectionate RELATIONSHIP�Grants Us FREE WILL. God Gives Us the Ability to say Yes to His Plan of Salvation�or NO�to our great dismay and destruction.
God Does this because God Does Not want Robots that God Has to FORCE to LOVE HIM!! That God has to CAUSE to Love Him!!
(your words) ��we believe we can checkmate God and that He doesn�t have the power to do anything about it. Nor would He be Sovereign with the power to choose whom He wants to save� (end)
Of COURSE God can �Choose� whom God wants to Save or Whom God wants to Cause to Sin�in order that God can (in all �good� conscious) say �See�they Sinned��before God sends them to �BURN IN HELL�. (such a Loving God).
But that is just it�God is not this Dictator that Manipulates His Children�His Creation�His Creatures! God is not this Mean-Spirited Being Arbitrally sends His Children to �Burn in Hell�! (because God �deemed� it so and because God �Caused� them to Sin!).
You can believe this Lunacy�that is Between God and you�but at least have the Decency to be Truthful in your Allegations.
I say Once again to you and James and All Calvinists�Shame on You�and May God Forgive You your Sins!
