Author Thread: Calvinism Isn�t Enough
dljrn04

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 01:43 PM

�It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,� Charles Dickens wrote in his classic A Tale of Two Cities. Perhaps years from now historians will reflect on the state of Calvinism at the beginning of the twenty-first century and offer similar commentary about the historico-theological tale of two, three, or four different shades of Calvinism. Perhaps the future thoroughgoing Calvinist editors of Time magazine will come out with a top-ten list called �Ten Ways God Changed the World as He Sovereignly Worked Through the Secondary Cause of Our March 12, 2009, Top Ten List.� And perhaps, years from now, Collin Hansen at Christianity Today will write a follow-up book titled We�re Neither as Young Nor as Restless as We Used to Be, But We�re Still Reformed.



Recovering the Meaning of Reformed



It�s hard to know what may come of this so-called �New Calvinism.� However, we do know that if the New Calvinism does in fact endure, it will endure only because it becomes firmly established on the old Calvinism of John Calvin himself � the same Calvinism of Jonathan Edwards, Martin Luther, Augustine, and the apostle Paul, which is nothing less and nothing more than the all-encompassing gospel-religion of our eternal and triune God � a religion, in the best sense of the term, existing in and among people of every tribe, language, and nation whom our Lord has sovereignly called into an eternal relationship with Himself through the redeeming work of the Son and the applying work of the Spirit.



The Calvinism I�m describing is an historically and ecclesiastically grounded Calvinism established within and upon that which our covenant Lord established and against which the gates of hell shall not prevail � the church of Jesus Christ. And we, the called-out ones, are the confessing church of Jesus Christ, and have been given ordinary means of God�s grace (the Word, prayer, and the sacraments, that is, all aspects of worship for all of life) through which God has promised to convict, convince, convert, equip, purify, discipline, sanctify, and sustain to the end, that we would love God, glorify God, and enjoy God forever.



Against such, there�s no argument. However, argument does exist over the very meanings of some of the words I have used to describe this old Calvinism. Words such as covenantal, church, confessing, and sacrament represent particular doctrinal affirmations of historic, confessional Reformed theology to which I adhere, but to which many churchmen, past and present, do not adhere while at the same time using the words Reformed and Calvinist to refer to themselves. As to whether or not this phenomenon of Reformed classification is appropriate, many have disagreed, and they disagree on reasoned grounds and on all sides of confessional Protestantism: Anglican, Baptist, Dutch Reformed, Lutheran, and Presbyterian. On the one hand, the words Reformed and Calvinist are historically and ecclesiastically rooted in confessional Reformed �theology, piety, and practice,� to employ the language of R. Scott Clark in his helpful epilogue, �Predestination Is Not Enough,� in Recovering the Reformed Confession (P&R, 2008). Yet, at the same time, there is a foundational doctrinal element that is common to all our confessions and to which all confessional Protestants adhere. It is the overwhelming, overarching, and oftenunderrated doctrine of God.



Calvinists new and old, around the world, have been convinced biblically of this one crucial tenet of historic, confessional Calvinism: God�s sovereignty over all � life, death, pain, disasters, relationships, salvation, condemnation, the good things, the bad things, the big things, the little things, the in-between things, and all the things we don�t even know about or can�t even see � over all. Simply put, we believe that God is God.



A Younger, New, Old Calvinist



For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, I am a confessional Presbyterian. When I say �confessional,� I am referring to the confessional standards I affirm as an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in America, namely, the Westminster Standards, which I believe contain carefully worded, helpful, and generally accurate summaries of biblical doctrine. As such, while I don�t officially represent the Dutch Reformed Calvinist churches, I do nevertheless consider myself a �Reformed� churchman. And although I�ve never been much for �isms,� I do consider myself a Calvinist who has been entrenched in the so-called �New Calvinism� for about fifteen years. Allow me to explain.



Not only was I not raised going to church regularly, I wasn�t raised around Presbyterian and Reformed circles. In fact, when I became a Christian at fifteen, it was through the ministry of a gospel-preaching but decidedly anti-Calvinist Southern Baptist church where I later went on staff. For the most part, I thought all Presbyterians and all those who got babies wet were just plain liberal, unbiblical, and, generally speaking, bound for hell. I didn�t realize there were entirely different types of Presbyterians � those who believe the Bible and those who don�t. And later on, much to my disappointment, I realized there were different types of Baptists too � those who believe the Bible and those who say they do but actually don�t.



Although my first pastor didn�t teach me Reformed theology, he did nevertheless teach me a great deal about how to study the Bible and why I should love the God of the Bible. Although he may not have realized it at the time, that godly man of the Word was teaching me to know and love the God of Scripture, who, as it turns out, is the same God of Reformed theology � the same God of Calvin and, perhaps I should add, the same God of Charles Spurgeon and John Bunyan.



Of course, Calvin, Lut her, Cranmer, Edwards, and Spurgeon disagreed on various doctrinal matters. And while there are obvious doctrinal differences among men like Mark Dever, Mark Driscoll, Sinclair Ferguson, Mike Horton, John MacArthur, John Piper, and R.C. Sproul, just to name a few, we nevertheless confess the same sovereign God over all � as well as all that confession carries with it in every area of doctrine. And while we are all fully aware of the doctrinal differences that exist among us, there does exist a significant doctrinal thread that binds us together. For the past few generations that thread has been somewhat uncommon and hard to find among professing evangelicals throughout the world, but is now, as Time magazine, Hansen, and others have rightly pointed out, a very common thread weaving together men and women, young and old, black and white, South and North American, Dutch and British, who have come to understand, affirm, and teach biblical doctrines of God, man, sin, and salvation, even when it means real turmoil, real persecution, and real ecclesiastical and familial division.



Calvinism Isn�t Enough



When I finally came to affirm the biblical doctrine of God�s sovereignty after fighting against it with all the free will I could muster, I found it wasn�t merely predestination that governed my theology. Rather, it was a more biblical knowledge of God Himself that began to change every aspect of my theology, starting with my knowledge of our gracious and just God and my knowledge of my dead and depraved self, which is precisely where Calvin started his Institutes of the Christian Religion and where the synod of churchmen at Dordtrecht (1618�19) hung their doctrinal hats in combating the Arminian Remonstrants.



In essence, the Reformed doctrines of grace as taught by Calvin and by every other faithful student of God�s Word throughout history, gave me a new hermeneutical lens through which I began to interpret all of Scripture. At the time, it wasn�t my foremost concern to wear a particular label, and because of the great respect I had for men on all sides of the Reformed camp, it was my foremost concern to study the Word of God and to study the theology of men of God throughout history who studied the Word of God to the end that I might rightly preach and teach the Word of God and submit myself to the ecclesiastical body that I believe to be in closest accord with Scripture.



My desire then, as it is now, is to think, speak, and act biblically and not to base my doctrines, my affiliations, or my allegiances on a respected name, a �successful� ministry, or an historically faithful or unfaithful denomination. This, in essence, is the predominant mind set of the New Calvinists, just as it was the mind set of Calvin himself, who was concerned neither with keeping up unbiblical appearances nor with keeping the Roman Catholic status quo.



A Really Radical Reformission



Although I very much want to preserve and define the words Calvinism, Reformed, and Presbyterian carefully and appropriately along historical and confessional lines (as do confessional Baptists, Lutherans, et al.), I also want to recognize and rejoice that so many young, restless, and reforming New Calvinists are so incredibly passionate and so gloriously gospel-centered as they are being reformed by our mutually worshiped sovereign God, according to Scripture, in God�s sovereign timing and for God�s sovereign glory.



In truth, day by day we�re all growing a little older, a little more willing to settle down and listen to our faithful forefathers, and a little less eager to jump on any sort of personality-driven bandwagons. And for what it�s worth, I think this is precisely the way Calvin (and all the old and New Calvinists) would want to see true, lasting reformation take place in the church and around the world. However, considering he wanted no stone ever to mark his grave, Calvin would likely raise the more radical question of whether we should employ his name at all in our doctrinal shorthand. He would probably prefer instead that we simply employ the name of our sovereign and gracious Lord, who is sovereign over the New Calvinists, the old Calvinists, and all the Calvinists yet to come � all of whom desire simply to be known as faithful followers of Jesus Christ.





by Burk Parsons www.ligonier.org/tabletalk

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 03:23 PM

When you talk with Reformed believers, the subject of Calvinism is not even close to being the center of attention.



The five points of doctrines the Arminians rejected ARE the truth, and when you have a discussion group like this one, and you present them with the Scriptures, and they either ignore your scriptures as in the case with Total Depravity, or they outright contradict the Scriptures two seconds after reading them, such as unconditional election, it becomes a debate because they are rejecting BASIC doctrines of Scripture.



And the Reformed consider the five points just basic truths of the Bible.



What the Reformed focus on is Worship!



THAT.......is where all the discussion is.



And with Arminians, like the ones on this group, they won't even CARE about worship.



So, I agree, just five points of doctrine are not enough, but consider where we are at.....



If they won't accept what the Bible teaches about mankind, then they are not ready for meat. They are having real problems digesting milk!





In Christ,



James

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 03:32 PM

James it is impossible for a Calvinist to worship the lord in Spirit and in Truth.

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 04:09 PM

Calvinism Isn�t Enough



*** YUP !!!...it sure isn't...but Jesus is...GOD's grace & mercy is...thank & praise you Father...for you are ALL I need...xo

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dljrn04

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 07:25 PM

AMEN James. I pray God would draw these people to himself and open their eyes to his truth. The grace in God alone is freedom to the believer. It is awesome when you don,t have to trust in self and can trust only in God.

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 07:53 PM

dljrn04 ,



In your Post are these words



��the Word, prayer, and the sacraments, that is, all aspects of worship for all of life��



I am curious�do you believe in Sacraments?



Also� Burk Parsons writes �When I finally came to affirm the biblical doctrine of God�s sovereignty after fighting against it with all the free will I could muster�



��with all the free will I could muster�



He used the (F) Word � FREE WILL! How can he be Affirming God�s Sovereignty (in the Calvinist sense) and still say that he has Free Will? Would you answer that question?



Yet James � a diehard Calvinist � has Approved this article. Either the article is not being Read or the article is Not Being Read.



Again I ask��How can a Calvinist say that he has Free Will?�



And dljrn04�do you believe in Sacraments?

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 09:10 PM

Arch said:



Yet James � a diehard Calvinist � has Approved this article. Either the article is not being Read or the article is Not Being Read.



James replies:



And of course there is no third possibility, like Arch not understanding some aspect of the article?





Think of a spectrum with absolute perfectly free will on one end, and a total robot on the other end.



FALLEN......and I know most people ignore The FALL, but I repeat

FALLEN human beings are somewhere in the middle.



We make choices all the time.



BUT, the Bible teaches that fallen man suppresses the knowledge of God, and does NOT have the ABILITY to repent and trust in Jesus, because they are TOTALLY spiritually DEAD.



All we are saying in denying a perfectly free will, is that fallen man is unable to repent and trust in Christ.



We have to rely TOTALLY upon God's mercy and grace to put a new heart and spirit in us.



Fallen mankind has a will, but to put the word 'free' in front of it, is going way too far.



In Christ,





James

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dljrn04

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 10:16 PM

Arch,



I do hold to the n ew testement sacraments of baptism and the Lords supper

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 12:22 AM

�Ahh I see�said the Blind Squirrel to the Nut!�



So now you are �Qualifying� your answer concerning Free Will.



�I always did believe in Free Will�but I was afraid to Admit it�but now I am Forced�sorry�by Truth to Repent and Admit that Man does Have Free Will�.



Yet�you are still hedging on Full Disclosure! Man has Free Will�but�not quite that Free.



James�Man is Born in Sin. We are Born Sinners. Until we are Baptized and Re-Born�God might as well be Speaking French to us (unless we are French)�because we will not Understand Him.



It is Only when we have been Baptized and Regenerated�Re-Born�are we Capable of Hearing God�s Word and TURNING TO HIM.



Man is Born Carnal. We are no better than the Dog lying down by your feet. No�I take that back�that Dog is Actually a Better Creature than Man is before being Re-Born. I think we both agree on that. What we Differ on is



�How does Mankind get �Awakened� from its �Trance of Sin�.



Since you do not believe in Baptism as a Regenerative Sacrament�then the Only Recourse you have is that God Forces�sorry�causes Mankind to Repent.

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 12:34 AM

dljrn04,



Now�I�m REALLY Confused!



You Believe in The Sacrament of Baptism and The Sacrament of The Eucharist�yet you are a Calvinist?



Why would God have a �Need� to Pass on His Graces to You if you are Already ASSURED of your Salvation? Why would you need God to Strengthen you if



(1) Your Salvation is Assured.

(2) There is Nothing you can do to LOSE it.

(3) God is in Total Control of Everything you do or happens to you?



It would Seem a Sham or some �Sick� Game God is Playing on HIMSELF!



It is as if you go to see a Doctor and that Doctor tells you that you are going to Die if you do not receive Daily Treatments from him and then this �Doctor� continues to see you on a regular basis�until you Die of Old Age!



See what I Mean? So�





EXPLAIN youself.

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Calvinism Isn�t Enough
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 12:35 AM

Sorry,



I meant to place these in the Last Two Responses.



:ROFL::dancingp:



:toomuch::boxing:



:rocknroll::buddies::ROFL::ROFL:

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