Thread: The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
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The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 07:01 PM
To teach that the natural man has a free will overthrows the gospel ... it is precisely because man is in bondage that he needs Christ to set him free. (John 8:34, 36)
"Free-will or Free-grace?; The Bible says that men are born again, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:13); that it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy (Rom 9;16); the work of faith is the operation of God according to the exceeding greatness of his power, who works in man both to will and to do of his own good pleasure." (Phil 2:13)
"Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace."
- C. H. Spurgeon
"All the passages in the Holy Scriptures that mention assistance are they that do away with "free-will", and these are countless ... For grace is needed, and the help of grace is given, because "free-will" can do nothing."
- Martin Luther, Bondage of the Will, pg. 270
If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.
- Martin Luther
"...human will does not by liberty obtain grace, but by grace obtains liberty."
- John Calvin
"We are all sinners by nature ,therefore we are held under the yoke of sin . But if the whole man is subject to the dominion of sin , surely the will , which is it's principal seat , must be bound with the closest of chains. And indeed if divine grace were preceded by any will of ours, Paul could not have said that ," it is God that worketh in us to will and to do ' (Phil. 2:13)
- John Calvin
"...we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. We deny that choice is free, because through man's innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. And from this it is possible to deduce what a great difference there is between necessity and coercion. For we do not say that man is dragged unwillingly into sinning, but that because his will is corrupt he is held captive under the yoke of sin and therefore of necessity will in an evil way. For where there is bondage, there is necessity. But it makes a great difference whether the bondage is voluntary or coerced. We locate the necessity to sin precisely in corruption of the will, from which follows that it is self-determined.
John Calvin from Bondage and Liberation of the Will, pg. 69-70
The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
Posted : 2 Sep, 2011 09:40 PM
The Concept of �Free Will� is being Misunderstood�either Intentionally or from Ignorance.
Man does not �Gain� Grace by using his Free Will. Man�s Free Will does Nothing for Man other than allowing him to CHOOSE!
It is God that Administers Grace.
Man left to his own devices Will Turn Away from God.
But Man that has been REBORN�that has been made a New Creature�Is Able to Turn to God�is Able to Hear God�s Word.
Baptism is that which Regenerates Man�which Creates a New Creature Capable of Hearing God�s Word.
John 3:3-7
New International Version (NIV)
3 Jesus replied, �Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]�
4 �How can someone be born when they are old?� Nicodemus asked. �Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother�s womb to be born!�
5 Jesus answered, �Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, �You[c] must be born again.�
��unless they are Born of Water and The Spirit.�
��You[c] must be born again.�
Born of Water and The Spirit is Baptism. This is what The Church has been doing from the very Beginning! Baptism is How you are BORN AGAIN! The Church has Understood this since the Beginning and up to today. It is ONLY after the rebellion that Christians were told differently.
Acts 2:38-39
New International Version (NIV)
38 Peter replied, �Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off�for all whom the Lord our God will call.�
�And you Will Receive the Gift of The Holy Spirit.�
Baptism Brings with it The Holy Spirit! That is why John had people Rebaptized
�In The Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit�
Because the First Baptism (John the Baptist�s Baptism) was One of Repentance � just for the Forgiveness of Sins�while the Second One � REGENERATED and CREATED a New Creature � Reborn��Born Again�.
But�for the Calvinist�Baptism has to be Symbolic. It has to be just �for show��because if it were to be truly a Sacrament ( God�s Grace Manifested) and Regenerative�then their Doctrine of Man�s Total Depravity would be �Kaput�!
Man would have a way to be able to Respond to God�s Gracious Gift of SALVATION. Not Only that but�everything Following (the U.L.I.P.) would CRUMBLE because Total Depravity and Mans lack of Free Will is
THE FOUNDATION OF CALVINISM! I must Repeat that�
Total Depravity and Mans lack of Free Will is
THE FOUNDATION OF CALVINISM!
No Amount of Clever �wordsmanship� or �Sleight of Tongue� or �Twisting of Scripture� will every Prove or Convince a ReBorn Christian to become a Calvinist.
2 Peter 2:1
New International Version (NIV)
False Teachers and Their Destruction
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them�bringing swift destruction on themselves.
��bringing swift destruction on themselves.�
2 Peter 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 05:37 AM
Simon,
I would not "Call" it being Unborn...for once you Receive The Holy Spirit -- I Doubt you can Lose that -- but you are in Danger of
SINNING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Hebrews 6:4-8
New International Version (NIV)
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Once you "Know" The TRUTH and Willfully turn away from it...well...that is not a Good Thing...OUCH!
The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 09:19 AM
It is interesting to note all thru the word it is clear when man choose not to follow the lord and when he did not follow him and some come along and completely deny these simple truth's claiming all that do not believe what they say are deluded.
The issue was very clear it is not that they could not see or could not hear because of their spiritual condition, Jesus it was because they hardened their heart against the word of God.
Jn 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 � But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
42 � Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
44 � Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Mt 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mt. 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt. 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mt. 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt. 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt. 13:15 For this people�s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt. 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mt. 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
The Need for Grace does away with free will altogether.....
Posted : 3 Sep, 2011 09:35 AM
Oh I guess we forgot, that it is man that chooses God and confesses with his mouth and then is a recipient of the Grace of God.
It was not Jesus that said man could not hear, it was man himself given to believe another doctrine, that trys to steer mankind away form the simple truth, of hearing the word of God,as it is of the heart, believing as it is of the heart and then confessing the lord Jesus of the heart.
