Thread: Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
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Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 12:40 PM
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted on January 5, 2011 by WF WHITE
The false teaching regarding Israel in this modern day is probably a lot worse than any of us realize. That is why it is so important for those Christians who have had their eyes opened to this great deception to speak out. I will be quoting often from Stephen Sizer�s book, �Zion�s Christian Soldiers? The Bible, Israel and the Church� in this article.
�How often have you heard the Jewish people described as God�s �chosen people�? Probably so often that you have never even questioned it. It is so ingrained that to deny it is often seen as evidence of anti-Semitism. As is the assumption that God blesses and curses nations on the basis of how they treat Israel-which is sometimes used as a threat. This view goes back to Genesis 12:3. Jerry Falwell, for example, says God is blessing America because America has been kind to the Jew. He claims God �will bless those who bless the Jews and curse whoever curses the Jews�. That is why Christians United For Israel conducts �A Night To Honor Israel� in as many cities as possible, so that God will continue to bless America and Canada.�
�It may surprise you to discover that the New Testament never uses the term �chosen� to describe the Jewish people. It is used only of those who follow Jesus. Does that mean God has two separate �chosen people�? Some like to think so. They are usually called �dispensationalists�, and this is a popular viewpoint among evangelicals in the United States.� [Zion�s Christian Soldiers, by Stephen Sizer, page 40, by Inter Varsity Press, 2007]
The quotes above explain the situation regarding Israel so well and I know it to be true. I have listened to enough �Christian� radio and television preachers as well as Pastors in the pulpit, and that is the message that you will hear. I have heard the term �Israel is God�s timepiece� quoted by a Pastor, and he was simply quoting what �Sister Basilea Schlink,� a nun in the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary, (is it a a cult?) had taught him. This type of teaching regarding Israel, is very mainstream in the modern day church and it has had an enormous influence on church people. Most people who sit in Churches will never question their Pastors because they believe that God has called them, anointed them, and they can do no wrong. They surely do not want to be considered a rebel within their own congregation. As a new Christian when I heard the teachings about Israel, and the prophecies about their return to the land, I too, never really searched deep enough, because I believed the �prophecy teachers� surely knew a lot more about those things then I did. I knew all along that the Jewish people needed Jesus Christ just like the rest of us, but the teachings on the prophecies and other things, I left to the �experts�and I thought that they knew what they were talking about. I did not really search out any opposing opinions until several years ago.
As I look back though, I can remember getting many a �check� in my Spirit, as I would listen to other Christians talk about he Jewish people, almost as if, they (the Jewish people) did not need to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It was almost as if they (the Jewish people) were alright just the way they were. I can remember listening to a radio teacher early on Sunday mornings, and I would hear him quote the scriptures, including passages from the book of Romans regarding the grace of God, and I would say amen. Then one day I heard that same preacher say something about the apostle Paul as being the only apostle that had the �mystery� revealed to him, and he contrasted Paul�s Gospel with the rest of the apostles of Jesus Christ, and I said huh? What on earth is this guy talking about? Little did I know at the time, but I was listening to a classic dispensationalist teacher, that is sometimes hard to discern because of the mixture with truth.
�John Nelson Darby, one of the founders of the Brethren movement, along with Cyrus Scofield, through his Scofield Reference Bible, popularized the novel idea that God has two separate plans-one being fulfilled through the church, the other through Israel.�
�Lewis Sperry Chafer, one of Scofield�s students, elaborates on this alleged dichotomy between Israel and the Church:
�The dispensationalist, believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives which is Christianity . . . Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne, so that in eternity . . . never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet.� [Zion�s Christian Soldiers, by Stephen Sizer, page 41 by Inter Varsity Press, 2007]
I was truly not aware of the details of this type of teaching, and so I started to read more about what they taught, and I could not believe it. This teaching sounds like spiritual insanity to me. This truly shows us how the false teachers along with their demonic doctrines, are able to infiltrate the church. It is a mixture of error along with truth, and if a person is not seeking to discern truth from error, it is extremely easy to be deceived. If that person being deceived is a Pastor (and that often is the case), then he (or she) will simply teach their people (sometimes thousands) the very same demonic doctrines that he (or she) has learned and accepted.
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. (2 Timothy 3:12-13)
Stephen Sizer goes on to write in his book the following:
If you imagine the way railway lines run parallel but never meet, that is how many dispensationalists believe Israel and the church remain separate.
This leads John Hagee, for example, to a novel interpretation of Genesis 22, where God promises Abraham, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.� (Genesis 22:17)
�Stars are heavenly, not earthly. They represent the church, spiritual Israel. The �sand on the shore� on the other hand is earthly and represents an earthly kingdom with a literal Jerusalem as the capital city. Both stars and sand exist at the same time, and neither ever replaces the other. Just so, the nation of Israel and spiritual Israel, the church, exist at the same time and do not replace each other.�
However, Hagee�s colourful interpretation doesn�t quite fit with the way Scripture interprets Scripture. Around 430 BC Nehemiah thanked God that the promise made to Abraham had already been fulfilled.
�You made their children as numerous as the stars in the sky� (Nehemiah 9:23)
Notice Nehemiah likens the Jews, not Gentiles, to the stars in the sky. Maybe they are the sand not the stars . . .
�Nevertheless, this view remains popular among many evangelicals and fundamentalists in the United States. It also lies behind best sellers such as Hal Lindsey�s The Late Great Planet Earth, as well as Tim LaHaye�s blockbuster Left Behind series.� [Zion�s Christian Soldiers, by Stephen Sizer, page 42-43, by Inter Varsity Press, 2007]
There is absolutely no difference between the Jew and the Gentile (all nations) in the sight of Almighty God. In the passage below the apostle Peter made that ever so clear to the early church:
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. (Acts 15:7-11)
A person is either with Christ or they are against Christ. A person is either in the Kingdom of God or they are not. A person is either SAVED and HEAVENBOUND or UNSAVED and HELLBOUND! The Bible passage above makes it very clear that a person has their heart purified by faith in Jesus Christ. If God, who knows the hearts, puts no difference between the Jew and the Gentile, then why would anybody want to follow the false teachers and false prophets who claim that God has two different plans, for two different peoples? The New Covenant (Testament) makes it so clear to us that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11)
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.(Ephesians 2:11-13)
The �commonwealth of Israel� is made up only of those (Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ) who have been made near by the blood of Jesus Christ. Yes, there are indeed two groups of people in the sight of God, and those two groups are the SAVED and the UNSAVED. The Gospel call to salvation has been going forth for centuries now, and many have received Jesus Christ (John 1:11-12) but most continue to reject Jesus Christ and HIS Gospel, and you can find people from both of those groups in EVERY NATION in the entire world!
*** I absolutely love this posters Straight Forward�No Nonsense�its Black or White�Heaven or Hell�Saved or UnSaved�Aproach�xo
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 01:18 PM
WILL ALL ISRAEL BE SAVED BY THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION??
Luke 21:24: Jesus says, �Jerusalem shall be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are complete.� The Times of the Gentiles was from AD 70 to June 7th, 1967 when the Jews again gained complete control of Jerusalem after 1897 years. In 1948 the Jordanian Gentiles destroyed 34 of the 35 Jewish Synagogues in Jerusalem and kicked out almost all the Jews. Obama:devil: would like Israel to return to its 1948 borders.
During the Great Tribulation Moses and Elijah will most likely witness miraculously to people in the uttermost parts of the earth in all 6,000 languages. Presently the Bible has been translated into about 2,000 languages from the inspired Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and faith comes from hearing or reading the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God. The Bible still has not been translated into about 4,000 languages and Rev 5:9b and Rev 7:9,13,14 must be completely fulfilled. Surely the courageous tribulation saints will help Moses and Elijah spread God's Word. They will do a fantastic job since according to Rev 7:9,14 there will be a great multitude from EVERY TRIBE AND LANGUAGE who will be �washed in the Blood of the Lamb� during the Great Tribulation.
Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw the souls of those who had been slain {Just like Jesus} because of the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, �How long until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?� The each of them was given a *WHITE ROBE*, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. Rev 7:9,13,14,15a,17a: �After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from *EVERY* NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb {Jesus}. They were wearing *WHITE ROBES*.":angel:
�Then one of the {24} elders {Rev 4:4} asked me, �These in *WHITE ROBES*�who are they and where did they come from?�� And he said, �These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; {Martyrs just like Jesus} they have washed their robes and made them WHITE in the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* {Jesus}. They are before the throne of God and serve him day and night... The Lamb {Jesus} at the center of the throne will be their Shepherd.� {See Rev 12:11 & Rev 13:8-10}
This passage in Rev 7:9 above shows that the Great Tribulation will be mainly for Christians in *EVERY Gentile nation and not just Jacob�s Jewish trouble which absolutely contradicts the main thesis of the pre-trib fairy tale. Revelation 14:13: Then I heard a voice from heaven say {During the Great Trib}, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
Rev 12:11: �They {THE TRIBULATION MARTYRS} overcame him {Satan} by the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.�:angel:
Revelation 7:3,4: The angel said, �Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God,� Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the {12} tribes of Israel.
This event occurred just before the land and sea were harmed by the first 6 trumpet plagues in Rev chapters 8 & 9. Also occurring just before the first 6 trumpet plagues will be the scene in heaven above of martyrs from every nation in Rev 7:9-18. So it is completely obvious that the 144,000 Jews did NOT participate in the evangelizing of the Gentiles from every nation in the world. There are many who believe that the 144,000 Jews will then evangelize Jews through out the world and possibly only Jews will be saved during the rest of the Great Tribulation since Gentiles from every nation of the world will already be saved. According to Zechariah 12;10; 13:8,9: Two-thirds of the Jews will be struck down and perish but one-third will call on my name and will say, �The Lord is our God.�
Presently there are approximately 15 million Jews and about 2 % or 30,000 are Christians. During the Great Tribulation 10 million Jews will die and 5 million will be saved which is and additional 4 million 970 thousand if 30 thousand are now Christians.
Romans 11:25-29: I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part **until the full number of Gentiles has come in **{As per Rev 7:9,14 above}. ***AND SO ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED***, as it is written: {In Jeremiah 31:33,34} �The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob {Israel}. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.� As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned they are loved on account of the patriarchs {Moses, Abraham, David ,Joseph, Isaiah, Elijah etc etc etc}, for God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. {Read Romans 11:11-32 and Hebrews 11:39-40}
Acts 1:6-8: The Jewish disciples asked Jesus, �Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel??� Jesus said to them: �It is not for you to know the times and dates the Father has set by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and to the ends of the earth.!!� Matthew 24:14: Jesus says {During the Great Tribulation} �This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to **ALL NATIONS** and **THEN** the **END** will come!�
God also inspired 40 Jewish men to write every Word in God's Word in both the OT and NT. Jesus was 50 % Jewish and is called the King of the Jews 12 times in the NT and the 12 Apostles including Paul were all Jewish who brought the Gospel to the Gentiles in the 1st Century. The Israelites are called Jews 80 times in the OT beginning with the book of Esther about 600 BC and the Israelites are called Jews over 200 times in the NT.
Acts 2:5: �Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.� And on the day of Pentecost 3,000 Jews were saved as per Acts 2:5,14,41. John 4:22b: Jesus says, "Salvation is from the Jews.!" Matthew 2:1,2: Wise men from the East asked, �Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews?� Matthew 27:11: Pilate asked Jesus, �Are you the King of the Jews?� �Yes it is as you say,� Jesus replied!
God said to Abraham, in Genesis 17:8: �The whole land of Canaan I will be give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.�
Quotes from Obama on May 20th, 2011: �Israel must learn do defend itself **BY ITSELF**!!� �Israel must return to **PRE-1967 BORDERS**!!� Nations from all over the world have heartily agreed with King Obama's 2 statements including the European Union, Russia and the United nations. Obama:devil: has also stated that he does not have to abide by the War Powers Act or the Constitution in declaring war thus making Obama a King with the power to make war against anyone he desires as long as he desires!
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 01:32 PM
Obama would like Israel to return to its 1948 borders.
*** I just Gota say...I purty much dont really care what Obama would like...:rolleyes:..Do really care that People understand that There is NO Differance betwix Jew & Gentile...espically in these currant days...and Purty PLEASE...Prophetic Richard...Don't get me started on Obama...:ROFL:...xo
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 01:39 PM
DO OBAMA'S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS QUALIFY HIM TO BE THE FUTURE FALSE PROPHET OF 666??
Obama definitely does not qualify to be the anti-christ since his name does not add up to 666 etc and the possibility of him being the future False Prophet of 666 is just an interesting speculation.
Some insight into Obama's "Christianity" comes from an interview he gave in 2004 to Chicago Sun-Times religion editor Cathleen Falsani for her book, "The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People."� "I'm rooted in the Christian tradition," said Obama. He then adds something most Christians will see as universalism: "I believe there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people...Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, and Buddhists all have their own path to grace.� Jesus says of Himself, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." That sounds exclusive, but Obama says it depends on how this verse is heard. According to Falsani, Obama thinks that "all people of faith -- Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone -- know the same God. And so Obama is popular with people of all faiths and the fact that he is half black and half white makes him more acceptable with people of all colors.
Falsani states that, "Obama doesn't believe he, or anyone else, will go to HELL. But he's not sure he'll be going to heaven, either."� The False Prophet will certainly teach that you can have your cake and eat it too, and that you will not go to HELL if you receive the Mark of the Beast which will allow you to buy or sell everything.� However, Revelation 14:9-11; 19:20 & 20:10 confirm that he and all who receive the mark of the Beast will be tormented day and night forever and ever in HELL!!
Obama told a crowd at Hocking College that he believes the Sermon on the Mount JUSTIFIES his support for legal recognition of same-sex unions??� Obama approves of same sex romantic and sexual relationships as do his former church, his pastor, and his former (So-called} Christian denomination?? Obama said that the Sermon on the Mount is a *BIG JOKE* since you can't have an army that offers up the other cheek?? Obama also sarcastically said, �Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy?� Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination?� Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith?"
Obama supports "strong" civil unions for homosexuals. He claims that restrictions on homosexuals getting married are "discriminatory" and "homophobic." Obama also endorses abortion on demand � including the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion.
The False Prophet should be hugely popular world-wide.� Interesting fact: Obama has greater worldwide popularity than any leader in modern history according to a recent poll in Reader's Digest and was also awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he did nothing to deserve it.� Jesus is our Messiah and the Prince of Peace and is called the LAMB 30 times in the book of Revelation.� The False Prophet is someone who is like a LAMB according to Rev 13:11b.� People from all over the world including Louis Farrakhan {A Muslim leader} have already given Obama this interesting nickname:� "THE MESSIAH"!!�� In a recent poll taken by BBC in September, 2009 about two-thirds or {*66.6%*} of those polled around the world thought Obama would make a great World President!!� Obama's world-wide popularity greatly increased when he successfully ordered the death of Osama Ben-Laden on May 1st, 2011.���
����� 666 is called a BEAST 36 {6X6} times in Revelation and the False Prophet is also called a "BEAST" once in Rev 13:11.� Obama has nicknamed his presidential limousine "THE BEAST"!!� In Revelation 13:11 the False Prophet is called the BEAST of the {PRESENT} EARTH.� Whereas all true Christians are looking forward to a new heaven and NEW EARTH as per 2 Peter 3:13:� "We are looking forward to a new heaven and a NEW EARTH the home of righteousness." {See Rev 21:1}� Obama is the all-time world's greatest champion of EARTH day and saving the PRESENT EARTH from Global Warming, Greenhouse gasses, coal burning, offshore drilling and carbon emissions and he may bankrupt the world in trying to achieve these goals. �Will forced skyrocketing gas prices which began with a war in Libya and revolutions throughout the middle East and Europe be the straws that break the camel's back??�
God said to Abraham, in Genesis 17:8: �The whole land of Canaan I will be give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.�
Luke 21:24: Jesus says, �Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.� {Or AD 70 to June 7th, AD 1967?} In 1948 Jordanian Gentiles destroyed 34 of the 35 Jewish synagogues in Jerusalem and kicked almost all the Jews out of Jerusalem. On June 7th, 1967 the Jews took over complete control of Jerusalem for the first time in 1897 years.
Quotes from Obama on May 19th, 2011: �Israel must learn to defend itself **BY ITSELF**!!� �Israel must return to **PRE-1967 BORDERS**!!� Obama would like the Jerusalem borders to go back to their 1948 borders!!Nations from all over the world have heartily agreed with King Obama's 2 statements including the European Union, Russia and the United nations. Obama has also stated that he does not have to abide by the War Powers Act or the Constitution {Concerning Libya} in declaring war thus making Obama a King with the power to declare war against anyone he desires for as long as he desires.
During the Great Tribulation {*666*} and his FALSE PROPHET will be responsible for the death of 2/3 {Which is exactly *66.6 %} of the Jews in the world and the remaining 1/3 will all be saved {Read Zechariah 13:8,9 & Romans 11:25-32}.
For the 3rd straight year, in a Gallup Poll; Obama was voted the Most Admired Man in the World by US Citizens: {*1st*} Barack Obama 22 % {*2nd*} George Bush 5 % {*3rd*} Bill Clinton 4 % - Pope Benedict 2 % - Billy Graham 2 % - Glenn Beck 2 %. OBAMAnable now is Commander in Chief and has complete control of the most powerful armed forces in the world.�
If you dial O-B-A-M-A on your touch phone the "O" + "M" are both {*6's*} or {*6+6*} and the other 3 letters B + A + A are all 2's or 2+2+2 which equals {*6*} for a grand total of {*6+6+6*} or {*666*}� If you dial O-B-A-M-A you will be dialing {*666*}!! In Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15; 666 is called an "ABOMINATION".� In a recent Middle East tour Obama declared that the USA was "NOT a Christian nation!"� I would tend to agree with Obama since Obama is rapidly and surely turning this nation into an "OBAMANATION"!!� In the Health Care bill passed on March 21st, 2010 Obama demonstrated that through skillful Satanic lies, deceit and bribery he can completely control the richest, most powerful "Christian??" nation of the world.� According to Rev 13:16: The False Prophet will force everyone to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead {A FRONTAL *OBAMATRY*?}
And so Obama:devil: meets *ALL of the requirements to be the future False Prophet of {*666*} which makes it a very interesting speculation.
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 02:33 PM
The False Prophet will force everyone to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead {A FRONTAL *OBAMATRY*?}
***Drum Roll Please...Bata Bump...and Take it AWAY...Prophetic/Richard...:ROFL:...on a more Serious Note...Yes Obama meets many Criteria and with Much Speculation...Just be Praisen GOD Almighty that we Christians don;t need to be worrying about this stuff...God has it covered...we just need to be Preaching the Kingdom of GOD / Heaven / Gospel of Salvation to those that have Yet to Hear...:peace:...xo
Israel And The Church: Two Distinct Peoples, Or Another Doctrine Of Devils?
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 03:59 PM
From the article - "�It may surprise you to discover that the New Testament never uses the term �chosen� to describe the Jewish people. It is used only of those who follow Jesus. Does that mean God has two separate �chosen people�? Some like to think so. They are usually called �dispensationalists�, and this is a popular viewpoint among evangelicals in the United States.�"
This person needs to understand Romans 11, and read the several prophecies yet to be fulfilled for Israel that are found in the OT.
God, in Romans 11, describes the Jews as "His people". That hasn't changed. Romans 11:26-27 says, "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." This same prophecy is written in Isaiah 59:20-21. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
The Church does not replace Israel; nor did the Church do away with Israel.
