Thread: Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
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Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 02:16 PM
Hello everyone:
What do we do with this portion of Scripture.
KJV
John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
The Literal translation
John 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it has hated you.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Youngs literal translation
John 15:18 if the world doth hate you, ye know that it hath hated me before you;
John 15:19 if of the world ye were, the world its own would have been loving, and because of the world ye are not--but I chose out of the world--because of this the world hateth you.
Nowhere in this Scripture or many others pertaining to the salvation of man,is there any reference to man having a 'FREE WILL' ,to be choosing to trust Yeshua to save them from the wrath of GOD against sin(s).
This Scripture emphatically says "Yeshua' chooses from out of the world those whom He saves.
Shalom
ps:
KJV
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
The Literal translation
John 6:37 All that the Father gives to Me shall come to Me, and the one coming to Me I will in no way cast out.
Youngs literal translation
John 6:37 all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me; and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without,
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 02:49 PM
Acts 5 KJV
1~ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2~ And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3~ But Peter said, Ananias, [[[ why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the ( Holy Ghost, ) and to keep back part of the price of the land? ]]]
4~ [[[ Whiles it remained, ( was it not thine own? ) and after it was sold, ( was it not in thine own power? ) why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. )
*** In his ( Ananias ) Power to Conceived / Choice / Choose / Self Will...to Lie unto GOD...
5~ And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6~ And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7~ And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8~ And Peter answered unto her, [[[ Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. ]]]
*** Privy to the Choice / Self Will of Deciet***
9~ Then Peter said unto her, [[[ How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? ]]] behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
*** Agreed together to Choose / Self Will / Decieve the Holy Spirit of the LORD ***
10~ Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11~ And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 03:27 PM
In order to believe that God created some for salvation, while He created others for hell, and His creation has no choice [free will] in the matter, one needs to believe also that Christ did not come to die for all [even though several Scriptures tells us He did], but as a ransom for 'some'.
Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time. - 1 Timothy 2:4-6
If you want to change that verse to 'God wills that "some" men be saved' and 'Christ who gave Himself a ransom for "some"', have at it.
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 04:26 PM
No, not all men will be saved, but God in the verse I provided, says that it is His will [desire] that all would be saved and come to the Truth. The same is said in 2 Peter 3:9 -
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.
Again, you'd have to change the Scripture to read 'God is not willing that 'some' should perish and that "some" should come to repentance'.
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 05:46 PM
**WE HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING WORD OF GOD**
John 1:13: To all who received Jesus He gave the right to become children of God�children born not of natural descent, NOR OF HUMAN DECISION or a husband's will but BORN OF GOD!�
Ephesians 1:13: �And you:rolleyes: also were included in Christ when you heard the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit!�
I Peter 1:22-24: �For you:rolleyes: have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the Living and Enduring Word of God....The Word of the Lord stands forever. And this is the Word that was preached to you!�
James 1:18: �He chose to give us:rolleyes: birth through the Word of Truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created!�:angel:
Matthew 13:18-23: Jesus says, Listen to what the parable of the sower means: {Luke 8:11 adds �The seed is the Word of God�} When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the Word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the Word and *UNDERSTANDS IT {Mk 4:20 adds �Accepts it� & Luke 8:15 adds �Retains it�} He produces a crop, yielding a hundred {100}, sixty {60} or thrity {30} times what was sown.�:applause:
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 07:19 PM
Passed,
You have to believe that there is No Free Will. If you believed Differently�then you could Not believe in Calvinism. For you to Consider yourself one of the elected�you have to believe in Predestination.
Consider this�what if God can �See� into The Future? What if God is Omni-Precient? What if God�s Time is nothing like man�s Time? What if God (Being The Creator of Time) can Go Anywhere in Time?
If God can go into The Future�then God Will KNOW just whom Will or Will Not Believe and Obey. If God KNOWS (ForeKnowledge)�then God Can CHOOSE those that God will Direct The Holy Spirit to.
I can �see� where some Christians might get �confused� about this? Which came First? God �Seeing� into The Future just Whom Will or Will not Believe and Obey or God Sending The Holy Spirit (either through Baptism or through God�s Will) to Regenerate Man?
Either way�I�m not going to �Burn up� my Feeble Mind trying to Figure it out. There are Numerous places in Scripture where you can see that man �Chooses� either to Believe or Not Believe�either to Follow God or Reject Him.
Joshua 24:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.�
��then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,��
Joshua asks them to CHOOSE. If man has no Free Will�how can man Choose?
Joshua goes on to say
�But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.�
What I Find IRONIC is that the dark one has Calvinists believing that they are the elect and that they Can Not Lose their Salvation. It is Ironic Because by Following this New Gospel�they may do Exactly the Opposite! They may find themselves being one of those Christians that Jesus says to them
���I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!�
How can you really believe that God has to Force His Children to Believe and Obey Him�sorry�Cause His Children to Believe and Obey Him?
You are being Led Down the Wrong Path! Beware! Beware!
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 16 Sep, 2011 09:36 PM
Why is it with some and they can not get others to buy into their agenda's have to throw in the sovereignty issue as if the father did not know he was God, But without exception when it is used it is describing the nature of Satan.
One has to be hardhearted and because of the hard heart have blinded them self to the truth.\\
Those that try so hard to say man is not free to choose are usually the greatest examples of man's ability to choose or reject the lord.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Knowing this for those that want to know a covenant is an agreement between two parties, and for there to be a covenant there has to be agreement between the two parties, in this case God and His Children
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 17 Sep, 2011 05:05 AM
Hey Phil:
AGain you have made a statement which 'CONTRADICTS' the Word of GOD.
Please show the Scripture where you have this misunderstanding.
Peejay says:
Knowing this for those that want to know a covenant is an agreement between two parties, and for there to be a covenant there has to be agreement between the two parties, in this case God and His Children
Me
Show one covenant in Scripture that is an agreement between GOD and man,JUST ONE!
Salvation:Free will or the choosing of the Son of GOD!
Posted : 17 Sep, 2011 08:43 AM
Sorry George it is your delusion, not mine, it is the whole bible, Satan will never reveal himself as he is, he is always lying as to what the father has said.
