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A question
Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 09:44 AM

Why do you think Jesus said that Elijah has came already but they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished?

When Elijah came?



Was Jesus saying here about the John the Baptist?

Why then He called him Elijah ???



11 Jesus answered and said to them, �Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.� 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist. Matth 17

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 09:47 AM

Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first



Where dis the scribes say that Elijah must come first?

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 09:51 AM

God said in this prophecy that Elijah should really come back.



5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet

Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

6 And he will turn

The hearts of the fathers to the children,

And the hearts of the children to their fathers,

Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.�



Malachi 4

The Great Day of God

1 �For behold, the day is coming,

Burning like an oven,

And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly :devil: will be stubble.

And the day which is coming shall burn them up,�

Says the LORD of hosts,



� That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name

The Sun of Righteousness :glow: shall arise

With healing in His wings; :purpleangel:

And you shall go out

And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,

For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet

On the day that I do this,�

Says the LORD of hosts.

4 � Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,

Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,

With the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet :waving:

Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

6 And he will turn

The hearts of the fathers to the children,

And the hearts of the children to their fathers,

Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.�

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 09:53 AM

Matthew 11:14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. :waving:





Matthew 11

John the Baptist Sends Messengers to Jesus

1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.

2 And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of[a] his disciples 3 and said to Him, �Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?�

4 Jesus answered and said to them, �Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: 5 The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.�

7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: �What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings� houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:





� Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,

Who will prepare Your way before You.�[b]



11 �Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. :waving: 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 10:09 AM

Jesus said:



And His disciples asked Him, saying, �Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?�

And He answered and said,

� Elijah is coming :purpleangel:

and will restore all things;

but I say to you, that Elijah already came, :waving:

and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.� Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist. (NKJV) Matt. 17:10-13



Jesus said that Elijah will come again.

That's why we expect that he will be one of the two prophets who will prophetize during the end time events before the Second Coming of Jesus.



Again the question:

When did Elijah came?

In fact he came during the transfiguration of Jesus. :glow:



John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah preparing the way for the Messiah (Mal. 3:1-2). He was not Elijah in the flesh because the real Elijah comes before the kingdom - the millennial kingdom. John the Baptist's ministry was carried out in the spirit of Elijah's. Elijah himself will come before the Return of Jesus Day during the tribulation.



Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. Malachi 4:5



Malachi 3

The Coming Messenger

1 �Behold, I send My messenger, :waving:

And he will prepare the way before Me.

And the Lord, :waving: whom you seek,

Will suddenly come to His temple,

Even the Messenger of the covenant, :waving:

In whom you delight.

Behold, He is coming,� :waving:

Says the LORD of hosts.



2 � But who can endure the day of His coming? :angel:

And who can stand when He appears?

For He is like a refiner�s fire

And like launderers� soap.

3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;

He will purify the sons of Levi,

And purge them as gold and silver,

That they may offer to the LORD

An offering in righteousness.

4 � Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem

Will be pleasant to the LORD,

As in the days of old,

As in former years.

5 And I will come near you for judgment;

I will be a swift witness

Against sorcerers,

Against adulterers,

Against perjurers,

Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans,

And against those who turn away an alien�

Because they do not fear Me,�

Says the LORD of hosts.

6 � For I am the LORD, I do not change;

Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

7 Yet from the days of your fathers

You have gone away from My ordinances

And have not kept them.

Return to Me, and I will return to you,�

Says the LORD of hosts.



� But you said,



� In what way shall we return?�

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 10:22 AM

So, why Jesus said:



"he is Elijah who is to come."



Let me remind you the mission of Elijah to be fulfilled:



5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet



Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.



6 And he will turn



The hearts of the fathers to the children,



And the hearts of the children to their fathers,



Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.�



So, God foretold us in the prophecies that God sends a messenger to prepare the way BEFORE Jesus.



�Behold, I send My messenger,

And he will prepare the way before Me. Malachi 3:1



His mission should be preparation of the way to God in the hearts of people. He called them to repentance and baptized them that they would REPENT.

That's why John the Baptist is this messenger mentioned in this prophecy.



1 �Behold, I send My messenger,

And he will prepare the way before Me.

And the Lord, whom you seek,

Will suddenly come to His temple,

Even the Messenger of the covenant,

In whom you delight.

Behold, He is coming,�

Says the LORD of hosts.



Actually Elijah's mission is the preparation of the Way to Jesus' return.

John the Baptist's mission is the preparation of the Way to Jesus' return.



That's why Jesus united these two prophecy to explain us what we all should do:

REPENT and CONFIRM our life to the High God's standards through our FAITH in God.

Because His Son is COMING BACK to JUDGE us for our crimes/sins....

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 10:37 AM

Bahiria, I think you are/have answering your own questions with the scripture:laugh::glow:

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 11:55 AM

Yes,

no one wanted to place responses and I meditated on the Scripture myself.



But if you have what to add I would be glad to consider your input too. :waving:

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 12:58 PM

It is quite obvious when we compare Scripture with Scripture that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah and was not Elijah, and that Jesus was obviously talking symbolically {As He often did} when He said John the Baptist was Elijah.



John 1:17: The asked him {John the Baptist} "Are you Elijah?" John answered, "NO".



Luke 1:17: The angel said to him {Zechariah-John the Baptist's father}, he {John the Baptist} will come in the spirit and power of Elijah."



WHO WILL BE GOD'S TWO WITNESSES {REV 11:3} OR MEN {REV 11:6} OR PROPHETS {REV 11:10} DURING THE 1260-DAY GREAT TRIBULATION??



Zechariah 4:11,14: "Then I asked the angel, 'What are these *TWO* OLIVE TREES {See Rev 11:4 below} on the right and left of the lamp stand?'... the angel said, 'These are the TWO who are anointed to serve the Lord of the earth!'" �Rev 11:3-6: {God said to John} "I will give power to My *TWO* witnesses and they will prophesy for 1260 days clothed in sackcloth! These are the *TWO OLIVE TREES {See Zech 4:11,14 above} and the 2 lamp stands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire will come from their mouths to destroy their enemies. This is how anyone who tries to harm them must die {See 2 Kings 1:9-12; Num 16:31-35}. These *MEN* will have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying {See 1 Kings 17:1; Luke 4:25; James 5:17}; and they will have power to turn the waters into blood {See Exodus 7:15-23} and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish." �



Moses and Elijah witnessed to 3 Apostles on the mount of Transfiguration when Moses & Elijah spoke to Jesus about his departure or Ascension, which Jesus was to bring to fulfillment in Jerusalem 40 days after His resurrection. Luke 9:30,31: �TWO MEN Moses and Elijah, appeared in GLORIOUS SPLENDOR talking with Jesus.� They spoke about His Departure {Or Ascension} which He was about to bring to fulfillment in Jerusalem." Moses and Elijah were most assuredly the *TWO MEN* dressed in white who witnessed at the Departure or Ascension of Jesus in Acts 1:10,11: "They looked up into the sky as He {Jesus} was going when suddenly *TWO MEN* dressed in WHITE stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into Heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into Heaven!"��



���� And then in Luke 24:2b-6b we read: They did not find the body of Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly *TWO MEN*... stood beside them... And the *MEN* said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? HE IS NOT HERE; HE HAS RISEN!!" �� Jesus says in John 8:17b: "The testimony of *TWO MEN IS VALID* and of course the testimony of Moses and Elijah is just about as valid as you can get. ������ And so the coming of God's *TWO MEN* or witnesses to prophesy for 1260 days {See Rev 11:3-7} will be their FOURTH appearance as God's 2 witnesses or MEN. And the reason that their names are not mentioned in Luke 24:3 and Acts 1:10 and Rev 11:3-12 is that the Father, Moses and Elijah want us to glorify *NO ONE ELSE BUT JESUS*!!



� � Moses and Elijah will most likely witness miraculously to people in the uttermost parts of the earth in all 6,000 languages. Presently the Bible has been translated into about 2,000 languages from the inspired Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and faith comes from hearing or reading the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God. The Bible still has not been translated into about 4,000 languages and Rev 5:9b and Rev 7:9,13,14 must be completely fulfilled.� Surely the courageous tribulation saints will help Moses and Elijah spread God's Word. They will do a fantastic job since according to Rev 7:9,14 there will be a great multitude from EVERY TRIBE AND LANGUAGE who will be �washed in the Blood of the Lamb�.



Moses & Elijah will be dressed in SACKCLOTH which is appropriate since the Tribulation saints will be very poor, for they will not be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17. Moses and Elijah will certainly speak the Word of God with great power and love. They will not add or take words away from the Prophetic Words of God {See Rev 22:18,19}; and they will encourage God's courageous saints to adhere to *ALL* of the NT commandments {See Rev 12:13b; 14:12b; Matt 28:20a; John 14:15,21,23; I John 2:2-5} with love {See Matt 5:39-48 & Rom 12:17-21} in the face of severe and hostile persecution.



Moses and Elijah will begin their 1260-day testimony {Rev 11:3} 3 � days before the coming of 666 & the 1260-day Great Tribulation and 1263 � days before the Last Day. {*THE FIRST END-TIME EVENT*} Moses and Elijah will warn us of the coming of 666 & his False Prophet. ��� It seems very appropriate that God will send His TWO PROPHETS {See Rev 11:10b} to warn and prepare His saints for the coming of Satan, 666 and the Great Tribulation for in Amos 3:7 we read: "Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the PROPHETS!"� GOD'S PROPHETS are mentioned 8 times in Revelation: Revelation 10:7; 11:10; 11:18; 16:6; 18:20,24; 22:6 & 22:9. Whereas; preachers, pastors and evangelists are not even mentioned once in Revelation! God will allow 666 to martyr Moses and Elijah {See Rev 11:7,8} right where their Lord was crucified. {At the new *HOLY PLACE* where Jesus shed his blood for our sins} 3 � days later Moses and Elijah will rise to heaven just hours before the 7th angel sounds the 7th Trump at the 2nd coming of Jesus.{See Rev 11:11-18}



Mark 13:14: Jesus says, �When you see 666 standing where he does not belong {At the New Holy Place}....then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.� {See Rev 11:7,8 & Rev 16:15} John 2:19: Jesus said, �Destroy this TEMPLE and I will raise it again in 3 days.� This HOLY PLACE is where Jesus became the chief cornerstone {Eph 2:20,21} and we are living stones {I Pet 2:5 & 2 Cor 6:16} in the LAST TEMPLE made without hands! {Acts 17:24} ����Certainly, the old Jerusalem and the old Temple site are NO LONGER HOLY PLACES.�� Hebrews 13:12-14: "Jesus suffered outside the city gate to make the people HOLY THROUGH HIS BLOOD. Let us, then, go to Him outside the city, bearing the disgrace He bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the CITY {THE NEW JERUSALEM} that is to come." {See Heb 11:10,13-16; Heb 12:22; Rev 3:12b; 21:2,10-27; 22:1-5; 2 Pet 3:13} Gal 4:25,26: "Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem {Called Sodom in Rev 11:8} because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is ABOVE is free, and she is our mother." {The New Jerusalem}

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Posted : 26 Sep, 2011 09:40 PM

Thank you Richard.

Great post! :applause:

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Posted : 29 Sep, 2011 03:42 AM

Brothers,



I have meditated on the Scripture and I think that



Elijah and Moses will not come during the Tribulation as two witnesses.



Why?



Because Elijah had already come to Jesus during the Transfiguration.



Moreover, John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah.







Jesus also said about John the Baptist:



Matthew 11:14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.







It means that the prophecies about the coming of Elijah have been already fulfilled!!!







Moses and Elijah died. After death their bodies are transformed and now they look like Jesus. Their bodies are immortal.



They cannt be executed!!!! They cannt die again!!!!



It contradicts to the Scripture.



It means it is a false speculation that Moses and Elijah will be the two witnesses during the tribulations.







Please reconsider your beliefs because we should stick to the Scripture and avoid false teachings!!!!



I said their bodies were transformed:



they are souls....spiritual bodies.



They should yet to be resurrected!!!!

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