Which one (IS) 1st in the Bible Scriptures (Word) and Taught by the Word (Jesus*) of GOD ?
1st~ Faith is found in Deut 32:20 ~ God says through Moses � children in whome there is �NO� faith. This word H529 emuwnaymoon means established, trust, worthyness, faith-(full) truth, and comes from the base word H539 awman and means to build up, support, to render, (or be) firm, faithful, to trust or believe, to be permenant, true, certain, steadfast, to turn to the (right)�But God is saying �NO� Faith�this comes from base word H571 emoonaw which simply means [short / lack of ]�So God says we are Short of and Lack Faith�
2nd~ Faith is found in Habakkuk in the 13th book of Prophets. A Prophet is someone Who Speaks for God. Though some prophets did predict future events their main role is to Call God�s people back to Him. It is written in Habakkuk 2:4 ~ � Behold his soul which is lifted up is (not) upright in him, BUT the just (shall) live by (his) faith. This is a two/fold statement in this prophecy. 1st it refers to the �soul� is (Not) upright in him. Who is the him ? It is man and his Soul is NOT upright in God/Jesus*. And 2nd��BUT� the just SHALL (Future tense) live by his (man�s) faith. The faith in this verse is the same as in the above paragraph H529 / H539 / H571 (short / lack of )�That�s very interesting !!!
3rd~ Faith is found in Mat 6:30 ~ Jesus says ~ �O ye of �little� faith�He doesn�t say �NO� faith (short / lacking) He says �little� faith� and is G3640 oligopistos and means of �Little Faith� Trusting to Little�, confidence (in Christ) this �little� faith is found in base word G6341 oliegos and means �Almost, Somewhat.� So now as Jesus is teaching we find there is Faith�its just �little��
4th~ Faith is found in Mat 8:10 ~ Jesus continues to teach He says ~ �Verilly I say unto you, I have not found [so] �great faith�, no, not in all Israel. This �great faith� is G4102 pistis and means ~ credence, conviction, truth, truth-(fullness) of God. especially � Reliance upon Christ for Salvation (Gospel), truth itself - assurance, belief, believe, faith�In plain English it means A LOT of Faith found (in) the Roman Centurian and Not in a Hebrew~Israel~Jew...
5th~ Faith is found in Mat 17:20 ~ as Jesus continues teaching we find He makes a three/fold statement pertaining to the demon processed boy incident��Because of your [ unbelief: ] for �Verilly I say unto you [ if ye have faith ] as a grain of mustard seed (which is very little) ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove and nothing shall be impossible for you.��Now that�s some Faith !!!!
We have found so far that Jesus is teaching a �Faithless� (NO Faith) and �Little Faith� (Almost~Somewhat Faith) can be �Great Faith� (A Lot of Faith)�
6th~ Reading through to Mat 18 ~ this Chapter is about Sin & Forgiveness�and in Mat 18:3 ~ Jesus continues teaching the apostles and says ~ �Verilly I say unto you, except you be [ converted ] and become as little children ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven��Stay with me here�I promise I�m not going off track�Its most Important to pause here and find out what this word [converted] means�
The word [ converted ] is G4762 strepho and means ~ strengthend and comes from base word G5157 trope and means to turn, turning, revolutions, reverse, convert, turn (again, back again), self, self about�Notice here the reference to �turn� and �self, self about��I find this very Interesting !!!�
7th~ Jesus continues teaching his disciples and we find in Mat 19:28 ~ He says �Verilly I say unto you, (that ye which have) (followed) me in the [regeneration]��This is the 1st mention of �regeneration� by Jesus* and is G3824 paliggenesia and it means (Spiritual), rebirth (the state or act), spiritual �renovation�; specific to the Messianic restorations � regenerations�Now this is Really Interesting !!!�since this is Not the same as being Born Again�
�Born� G1080 gennao ~ begotten of man & women and of God making man his son�s through faith in Christ�s work and �Again� G509 anothen ~ from above, a higher place, anew, over again, to produce again, be born again�See John 3:3,7. And �Born Again� anagennao ~ to have ones mind changed so that he/she lives a new life and one conformed to the Will of God�See 1 Peter 1:23
8th~ the word �regeneration� occurs Only 2 x in 2 verses in the Scripture�beginning in Mat 19:28 and Titus 3:5 and it means the same in both�
9th ~ the word �faith� occurs 247 x in 231 verses of Scripture beginning in OT/Duet ~ NT/Revelations
Now here is the Simple Scriptural and Biblical Truth�
Deut 32:20 ~ God said ~ NO Faith��short / lack of�
Hab 2:4 ~ God said ~ Twofold ~ �short / lack of� ~ BUT ~ shall (future tense) live by his �FAITH��
Mat 6:30 ~ Jesus said/taught ~ �Little Faith� ~ �Almost� ~ �Somewhat� �
Mat 8:10 ~ Jesus said/taught ~ �Great Faith� ~ Found in a Roman Centurian�
Mat 17:20 ~ Jesus said/taught ~ Threefold ~ �Unbelief� ~ �Little Faith� ~ �nothing Impossible for you�
Mat 18:3 ~ Jesus said/taught ~ �Be Converted�
Mat 19:28 ~ Jesus said/taught ~ � Ye which have �Followed� me [Jesus*] in the �regeneration��Messianic�
What came 1st ???�.FAITH !!!�then Conversion�then Regeneration�May you be Blessed in the Truth of our LORD and Saviour Christ Jesus*�xo
What Comes First the answer is now and always will be The word of God is always first, and always is first place and even in the New covenant we have heard man can not come unless he is drawn, and it is never taught how man is drawn to God it is by the word of God and that is why we are to proclaim the word of god it is not now or will it ever be that some are drawn and some are not.
Jude the conclusion comes out in agreement with scripture,
man is born again by the word of God by the seed of God.s word comes alive in the heart of man and then the Holy Spirit comes in and put a new spirit in man that is what the regeneration is.
YUP !!!...:rolleyes:..I don't wonder Why the "Calvinists" DON'T have Anything to Say or Add or to Tear Apart in this finding in the WORD (Jesus) of God found the Scripture...Most likly it is because it does line up with one their articles...:winksmile:...
No matter What Anyone Posts here...as Christians WE Always take it to the Word of God...to quote King David the Psalmist...
Psalm 71:1 "IN THEE O Lord, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion."....and Paul...
1 Cor 14:33 " For God is not the [author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints"
God came first, you can take out of context as much scripture as you all want but the what God says is the truth. God came first. We are at enmity against him, we hate him, we would never go seeking after him, unless he through the holy spirit QUICKENED us.
God breathed life into that who were spiritually dead.
Think of a light bulb being us. faith being electricity, unless GOD turns on the switch, faith will NEVER flow through us and make us shine. It is GOD who make light not of yourselves.
When we stubborn, unregenerate, prideful, non repentant, and sinful humans believe we who have violated God�s Moral laws have the right, and a free will, to override God and choose Him and grant ourselves salvation, we make ourselves a god, because we believe we can checkmate God and that He doesn�t have the power to do anything about it. Nor would He be Sovereign with the power to choose whom He wants to save. When one believes he or she can checkmate God they are on VERY dangerous ground.
SOooo ya both can't elaborate on the Scriptures given ??? Only Post Links and Other Verses ?...Go figer...Of course GOD (IS) First...and HE (ALWAYS) will be...but what does Anything Yall posted have to do with the simple fact that in the Word (Jesus) of GOD in the Bible...Faith comes first ?...xo
of course the word of God brings forth faith but that is not what the thread was about. It said what comes first, i told you GOD comes first. Unless God breathes life into that whom is spiritually dead there will be no faith.
Donna you and James say nothing that has anything to do with scripture, that is the whole point, what you said is a calvinist opinion that has nothing to do with Jesus and what scripture teaches.
Donna said ~ of course the word of God brings forth faith but that is not what the thread was about. It said what comes first, i told you GOD comes first. [[[ Unless God breathes life into that whom is spiritually dead there will be no faith. ]]]
OK...once again�I agreed GOD comes first�BUT�the Topic AGAIN (IS) not (Was) about�
What comes First ???
Regeneration or Faith ???
Which one (IS) 1st in the Bible Scriptures (Word) and Taught by the Word (Jesus*) of GOD ?
So now where in the Scripture before Deut or Matthew does GOD "Breath" this �life� you are speaking about�into man before he has "Faith" pertaining to �Regeneration� or as you call �Quickening� which is not the same thing as the "Regeneration" Jesus spoke and taught ???...thanxs...xo
First things first James Debating as you say would be sin, there is no debate to the lord Jesus, you either believe him or you don't, and you always without exception say and prove you don't because you believe you interpret the word of God, Jesus instruction was always to hear and believe and then mix faith. That is the way the Father and Jesus operate, and that is the way Jesus operated on the earth, everything he said or did was an act of faith.
For the record there is not any verse that teaches man is unable to respond to the word of God, notice I said the word of God, I did not say the Spirit of God.
Also James Scripture does not make you believe man choose to believe or reject the word of God. and you can not say you believe the word of God and then say you are interpreting it.
> Okay, lets look at each one of these verses and see if they actually DO teach
that regeneration comes AFTER a person has faith.
>
>
> John 7: 39
> English Standard Version (ESV)
>
> "Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to
receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet
glorified."
James this sitting you gave her is the gift of the Holy Ghost, it has nothing to do with being born again, The gift of the holy ghost is received just as Jesus is The Gift of the Holy Spirit is for the church he is not for the world.
Jn 7:39Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit, who would be given to everyone that had faith in him. The Spirit had not yet been given to anyone, since Jesus had not yet been given his full glory.
Jn 7:39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.
The sitting is those that believe on him would receive the Holy
Spirit.
This is illustrated in acts 2:4 and this is the same thing that happened to Jesus when he was baptized, this is the anointing not the new birth Acts 2:4 is The gift of The holy spirit just as scripture teaches and by the way James it is also very clear that the spirit came upon not within.
.
> Of course, the Holy Spirit was present in the Old Testament period, but at
Pentecost He entered into a more intimate relationship with believers. (14:17:
1 Cor.6:19) I have no idea what you are trying to communicate here but it has nothing to do with the topic.
Acts 11:17 If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God?
Again notice the Gift, the gift was receiving the Holy Spirit not Jesus.
Verse 44 in acts 10 tells us exactly what happened and how they knew for they heard them speak in tongues.
What have these verse to do with the meaning you put to them nothing.
I personally received the Holy Spirit about three months after I was born again not regenerated then faith.
