Thread: The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
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The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 03:05 PM
The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
This is commonly known as a belief in a "limited atonement" (some Reformed men prefer to call it "definite atonement"). It is the teaching that Christ died on the cross and paid the penalty only for the sins of the elect. He did not die for the ones who eventually will be in the lake of fire. Often it is worded as follows: "Christ died for all men WITHOUT DISTINCTION but He did not die for all men WITHOUT EXCEPTION." This is a subtle game of semantics which makes it possible for them to say that He died for all without really meaning that He died for all. What they really mean is that Christ died for all kinds of people and all classes of people, but He did not die for every single person. That is, He died for Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, slave and free, male and female, etc., but it is understood that He died for only elect Jews and Gentiles, only elect rich and poor, etc.
Dr. Paul Reiter, has clearly and simply summarized the Scriptural teaching on this issue. FOR WHOM DID CHRIST DIE?
HE DIED . . .
1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).
2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).
3. For the world (John 3:16).
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
7. For many (Matt. 20:28).
8. For Israel (John 11:50�51).
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).
[From unpublished lecture notes written by Dr. Paul Reiter, former professor at Appalachian Bible College, Bradley, WV.]
It is evident that the extreme Calvinist must ignore the clear language and obvious sense of many passages and he must force the Scriptures and make them fit into his own theological mold. Limited atonement may seem logical and reasonable, but the real test is this: IS IT BIBLICAL? "What saith the Scriptures?" (Rom. 4:3). In childlike faith we must simply allow the Bible to say what it says.
Those who promote this erroneous doctrine try to tell us that "world" does not really mean "world" and "all" does not really mean "all" and "every man" does not really mean "every man" and "the whole world" does not really mean "the whole world." We are told that simple verses such as John 3:16 and Isaiah 53:6 must be understood not as a child would understand them but as a theologian would understand them. That is, we must reinterpret such verses in light of our system of theology.
The true doctrine of the atonement could be stated as follows:
The Scriptures teach that the sacrifice of the Lamb of God involved the sin of the world (John 1:29) and that the Savior�s work of redemption (1 Tim. 2:6; 2 Pet. 2:1), reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:19) and propitiation (1 John 2:2) was for all men (1 Tim. 4:10), but the cross�work of Christ is efficient, effectual and applicable only for those who believe (1 Tim. 4:10; John 3:16). We could even say it in a simpler way: "Christ�s death was SUFFICIENT FOR ALL but EFFICIENT only for those who believe." The cross�work of Christ is not limited, but the application of that cross�work through the work of the Holy Spirit is limited to believers only.
The extreme Calvinist would say that the cross was designed only for the elect and had no purpose for the "non�elect" (persistent unbelievers). But the death of God�s Son had a divine purpose and design for both groups. For the elect, God�s design was salvation according to His purpose and grace in Christ Jesus before the world began (2 Tim. 1:9; 2 Thess. 2:13). For unbelievers, God�s purpose and design is to render the unbeliever without excuse. Men are CONDEMNED because they have rejected the Person and WORK of Jesus Christ and refused God�s only remedy for sin (John 3:18; 5:40).
Unbelievers can never say that a provision for their salvation was not made and not offered. They can never stand before God and say, "The reason I am not saved is because Christ did not die for me." No, the reason they are not saved is because they rejected the One who died for them and who is the Savior of all men (1 Tim. 4:10). They are without excuse.
This issue is not merely academic. It is extremely practical. It affects the very heart of the gospel and its presentation. The gospel which Paul preached to the unsaved people of Corinth was this: "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor. 15:3). Do we really have a gospel of good news for all men (compare Luke 2:10�11)? In preaching the gospel, what can we say to an unsaved person? Can we say, "My friend, the Lord Jesus Christ died for you. He paid the penalty for your sins. He died as your Substitute"?
One Reformed writer said this:
But counselors, as Christians, are obligated to present the claims of Christ. They must present the good news that Christ Jesus died on the cross in the place of His own, that He bore the guilt and suffered the penalty for their sins. He died that all whom the Father had given to Him might come unto Him and have life everlasting. As a reformed Christian, the writer believes that counselors must not tell any unsaved counselee that Christ died for him, FOR THEY CANNOT SAY THAT. No man knows except Christ Himself who are His elect for whom He died [emphasis mine]. [Jay Adams, Competent to Counsel, p. 70.}
As C.H.Mackintosh has said, "A disciple of the high school of doctrine [extreme Calvinist] will not hear of a world�wide gospel�of God�s love to the world�of glad tidings to every creature under heaven. He has only gotten a gospel for the elect."
How can we sincerely offer to men what has not been provided for them? How can we offer them a free gift if the gift has not been purchased for them? How can we urge them to drink from the fountain of life if no water has been provided for them? How can we tell them to be saved if the Lord Jesus Christ provided not for their salvation? How can we say to a person, �Take the medicine and be cured!� if there is no medicine to take and no cure provided? W. Lindsay Alexander explains: �On this supposition [that of a limited atonement] the general invitations and promises of the gospel are without an adequate basis, and seem like a mere mockery, an offer, in short, of what has not been provided.� [W. Lindsay Alexander, A System of Biblical Theology, 2nd volume, page 111]
If the Reformed preacher were really honest about it, he would need to preach his "gospel" along these lines:
"Perhaps Christ died for you."
"Maybe God so loved you."
"Christ shed His blood for you, perhaps."
"Salvation has been provided for you, maybe."
"Possibly God commendeth His love toward you."
"Hopefully He�s the propitiation for your sins."
"There is a possibility that Christ died as your Substitute."
"I bring you good news, maybe."
"It�s possible that Christ died for you. If you get saved then we know that He did die for you, but if you continue to reject Him then He did not die for you."
"Christ died for you only if you believe that Christ died for you (thus proving you are elect), but if you do not believe this and if you continue in your unbelief until the day you die, then Christ did not die for you."
Those who hold to a definite or limited atonement do not present the gospel in this way, but would not such a presentation be consistent with their theology? Would it not be a correct and cautious and sincere way of sharing with the unsaved? An extreme Calvinist must be very careful how he presents the cross-work of Christ to an unsaved person because he never really can be sure if Christ has made provision for that person. As Robert Lightner has said, "Belief in limited atonement means that the good news of God�s saving grace in Christ cannot be personalized. Those who hold to such a position cannot tell someone to whom they are witnessing that Christ died for him because that one may, in fact, not be one for whom Christ died." [This quote is from an article by Robert Lightner in the book, Walvoord: A Tribute, p. 166].
John Bunyan made this observation: "The offer of the Gospel cannot, with God�s allowance, be offered any further than the death of Christ did go; because if it be taken away, there is indeed no Gospel, nor grace to be extended" (Bunyan�s Works). In other words, how can you offer the gospel to a person if Christ did not die for that person? How can we offer the sinner what has not been provided? As Lightner has said, "No maxim appears more certain than that a salvation offered implies a salvation provided." [Robert Lightner, The Death Christ Died, p. 114]
Boettner says: "Universal redemption means universal salvation" (cited by Lightner, The Death Christ Died, p. 96). The extreme Calvinist argues that Christ must save everyone that He died for. They reason thus: "If Christ died for everyone, then everyone will be saved." Let�s think about the logic of this statement. This would be like saying, "If medicine is available for everyone, then everyone must be healed." This is obviously false. The medicine, though available, will not do any good unless it is taken. "There is more than enough cool, refreshing water for every thirsty person in the village." Does this mean that every person in the village will have his thirst quenched? Only if every person drinks! We need to make a difference between redemption accomplished and redemption applied.
The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 03:50 PM
The Arminians say, 'Christ died for all men.' Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question: Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer 'No.' They are obliged to admit this, if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died that any man may be saved if ?' and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as infallibly to secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ's death; we say, 'No, my dear sir, it is you that do it.' We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it.
The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 04:22 PM
Great article, Jude. Thank you!
James, I really don't want to argue a dead persons thoughts, but Charles Spurgeon was wrong in his argument. In fact, his argument reminds me of one you made some time ago, in that you as a Calvinist created your own argument against a non-Calvinist, answering your own questions as some uninformed non-Calvinist, in order to win your argument. :goofball:
The shed blood of Christ on the Cross was enough to cover all the sins of all mankind. There was not one drop that was not sufficient enough to save any one person.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Did you read that James? Christ is the propitiation not for our sins only [those who believe], but for the sins of the whole world. Not part of the whole world, but the WHOLE WORLD.
The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 05:38 PM
Oh, let me see what the Word of God has to say about this?
"I endure all things for the sake of the ELECT" [II Timothy 2:10]
Not for ALL MEN, mind you, but "FOR THE ELECT!" Yes, that is pretty clear and straight forward!
"Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's ELECT, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;" [Titus 1:1]
The faith of who..? "ACCORDING TO THE FAITH OF GOD'S ELECT", that's who..................
It is �the faith of God�s elect�, and no amount of twisting the Word, will ever weaken or hinder its efficacy!
�Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;� [Col 3:12]
Another way of saying this, is �Put on� as the ELECT of God,�..
If you are not the ELECT of God, you are not going to believe it, it is that simple.
And here�s Jesus speaking, referring to God�s elect, since you are such great authorities on this subject:
"He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.� [Mark 24:31]
�For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT.� [Matt 24:24]
Jesus used this term of endearment TWICE and you dare to state that it is dangerous to believe it?
It really does not matter what tens of thousands of men and demons say about the pure doctrine that is the Word of God; it is heresy and blasphemy to say that the Word of God is empowered by men. On the contrary, it is the Word of God which empowers faith, dispels unbelief, and resurrects the dead.
Your heretical positions make the Word of God appear to be without power, until it is believed on.... by what....A DEAD MAN?
"And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins." [Eph 2:1]
How can a dead man regenerate anything, let alone the power necessary to bring himself back to spiritual restoration and alignment with the Almighty?
You people believe in some seriously flawed junk science. You have been sitting in front of Benny Hinn for too long, and his damnable heresies that �Adam flew in the garden,� or �Eve gave birth through her ribcage!�
Praise God that it is in the power of the Word that the Lazarus' of Christ do.... "COME FORTH!"
Lazarus did not just up and hobble out of that tomb on his own, people. He was GRAVEYARD DEAD and his corpus was rotten. He was stinking! Stinking, rotting, dead men, who are spiritually dead, have no power!
The Word was sent to raise the Lazarus' of God's elect, the Lazarus' of God's choosing, the Lazarus' chosen to be raised from the foundation of the world, [as Jesus was demonstrating] from the spiritual grave:
�Then shall the King say to them on His right hand, �Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world!� [Matthew 25:34]
It was �PREPARED for you [the elect] from the foundation of the world�, go look that word [�PREPARED�] up�����
Let me give you a hint: The answer is in the prefix �pre�, which means �in advance� or �beforehand�
You live in a world of dead men [spiritually speaking]; the men of earth are so stupid, ignorant, and blind that they would not know what real truth is, real knowledge is, if it hit them in the forehead..
Let me give you one example of just how dead the American people are, since you think men are so brilliant as to establish some wondrous supernatural connection to the Most Wondrous Being of all..
They don't have enough sense to even know how to count from one to ten, or grasp that the Federal Reserve Bank is a private corporation that has never been audited, and yet they foolishly let these Babylonian con-artists from hell, in the form of our elected leaders create $2TRILLION STIMULUS and BAILOUT PROGRAMS, that merely moved this money to foreign banks, while never questioning the sheer idiocy behind Luciferian Nancy Pelosi's statement "YOU HAVE TO PASS THE BILL TO FIND OUT WHAT IS IN IT!"
Are you kidding me? Men don�t have the intelligence of a stump, without the Lord God, Who became sin on our behalf, that we would have His righteousness on us.
Don't you dare insult God's intelligence by stating that these men are wise enough, and possess such great intellectual and supernatural abilities as to manufacture power, wondrous working power, and then apply it to themselves when they are DEAD!
This is truly one of the most idiotic posts that I have ever seen..
Some of you get together, and rub each other, and pat each other on the backs, and smile to yourselves, while chirping, �You are so right�, and you think that this is enough to make men believe in God?
You must have bumped your heads!
Who is either of you to question the Word of Almighty God?
Aren't you afraid to talk like this? Who do you think that you are? Do you think yourselves God, that you interpret His Words? His Word is not subject to your interpretation:
"He doeth His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth, and none can stay His hand or say to Him, 'What doest thou?' " [Daniel 4:35]
There is not a creature in heaven or earth that can stay His hands, and yet you dare call Him a "LIAR"..?
If man has the choice, then he is god, and has the power to stay God's hand.
But he doesn't, and thus the deception of man is so great, that if it were not for the Father predetermining His children, and so positioning their lives, so that "no weapon formed against them should prosper", we'd be lost as well.
The last one who made comments such as you two, who are but dust and cannot put the wing back on a fly, was kicked out of heaven, and made to crawl on his belly in the garden.
The Danger of Teaching that Christ Died Only for the Elect
Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 06:01 PM
Furthermore, the Bible has 31,103 verses in it, and you want to quote some Luciferian who has used 12 verses to write a book on "the Wondrous Knowledge of God Before the Foundation of the World in conjunction with His Eternal Plan"..?
______________________________________
The post reads:
"Dr. Paul Reiter, has clearly and simply summarized the Scriptural teaching on this issue. FOR WHOM DID CHRIST DIE?
HE DIED . . .
1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).
2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).
3. For the world (John 3:16).
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
7. For many (Matt. 20:28).
8. For Israel (John 11:50�51).
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).
[From unpublished lecture notes written by Dr. Paul Reiter, former professor at Appalachian Bible College, Bradley, WV.]
12 verses out of 31,103 verses....?
It is garbage out of hell such as this which has led to the creation of Christianity's over 32,000 warped denominations.
