Author	Thread: The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people....
Admin	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 03:57 PM election itself saved no one; it only marked out particular sinners for salvation. Those chosen by the Father and given to the Son had to be redeemed if they were to be saved. In order to SECURE their redemption, Jesus Christ came into the world and tool upon himself human nature so that He might identify Himself with His people and act as their legal representative or substitute. Christ, acting on behalf of his people, perfectly kept God's law and thereby worked out a perfect righteousness which is IMPUTED TO THEM THE MOMENT THEY ARE BROUGHT TO FAITH IN HIM. Through what He did, they are constituted righteous before God. They are also freed from all guilt and condemnation as the result of what Christ suffered for them. All Calvinists agree that Christ's obedience and suffering were of infinite value, and that if God had so willed, the satisfaction rendered by Christ would have saved every member of the human race. But he came into this world to represent and save only those given to Him by the Father. The Arminians also place a limitation on the atoning work of Christ. but one of a much different nature. They hold that Christ's saving work was designed to make possible the salvation of all men on the condition that they believe, but that Christ's death IN ITSELF did not actually secure of guarantee salvation for anyone. Since all men will not be saved, a limitation must be admitted. Calvinists say the Christ's death was all powerful but it was limited to the elect, and Arminians say it was intended for everyone, but it only made it POSSIBLE for God to pardon sinners, on the condition that they believe. For the Calvinist, the atonement "is like a narrow bridge that goes all the way across the stream; for the Arminian it is like a great wide bridge that goes only half-way across." I heard a preacher once say "God casts a vote for you, the Devil casts a vote against you, and you cast the deciding vote!" As a Calvinist I would say something like, "This is God's universe, He is merciful and loving, repent and trust in Jesus, and the Devil is on a short leash and has no say in your salvation!" A. The Scriptures describe the end intended and accomplished by Christ's work as the full salvation of His people. 1. The Scriptures state that Christ came, not to enable men to save themselves but to SAVE sinners. Matthew 1:21: "...She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will SAVE HIS PEOPLE from their sins. ' Luke 19:10: "For the Son of man came to seek and to SAVE that which is lost." Galations 1:3,4: Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, WHO GAVE HIMSELF for our sins TO DELIVER US from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father. 1 timothy 1:15: The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS and I am the foremost of sinners. Titus 2:14:...who GAVE HIMSELF for us to REDEEM US from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds. 1 Peter 3:18: For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, THAT HE MIGHT BRING US TO GOD, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. see also: 2 Cor. 5:21 2. The Scriptures declare that, as the result of what Christ did and suffered, His people are reconciled to God, justified, and given the Holy Spirit who regenerates and sanctifies them. All these blessing were SECURED by Christ Himself for His people. A. Christ, by His redeeming work, SECURED RECONCILIATION for His people. Romans 5:10: For if while we were enemies we were RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Ephesians 2:15,16: ...by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself on e new man in place of the two, so making peace, and MIGHT RECONCILE US both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. Colossians 1:21,22: And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, HE HAS NOW RECONCILED in his body of flesh by his death, IN ORDER TO present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him. see also:2 Cor. 5:18,19 B. Christ secured the righteousness and pardon needed by His people for their JUSTIFICATION. Romans 3:24,25:...they are JUSTIFIED by his grace as a gift, THROUGH THE REDEMPTION WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. Romans 5:8,9: But God shows his love for us in that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS CHRIST DIED FOR US. Since, therefore, we are now JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Hebrews 9:12:...he entered once and for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but HIS OWN BLOOD, THUS SECURING AN ETERNAL REDEMPTION. 1 Peter 2:24: He himself BORE OUR SINS in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. BY HIS WOUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN HEALED. see also: 1 Cor. 1:30; Colossians 1:13,14 C. Christ secured the gift of the Spirit which includes REGENERATION and SANCTIFICATION and all that is involved in them. Ephesians 1:3,4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ WITH EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. Titus 3:5,6:....he saved us, not because of of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of REGENERATION and RENEWAL in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly THROUGH Jesus Christ our Savior. Hebrews 13:12: So Jesus also suffered outside the gate IN ORDER TO SANCTIFY the people through his own blood. see also: 1 John 1:7; Heb. 9:14; 1 Cor. 1:30; Acts 5:31 Philippians 1:29; Ephesians 5:25,26 B. Passages which represent the Lord Jesus Christ, in all that he did and suffered for His people, as fulfilling the terms of a gracious compact or arrangement which He had entered into with His heavenly Father before the foundation of the world. John 6:35-40: Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVES ME WILL COME TO ME; and him who comes to me I will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME; and this is the will of him who sent me, THAT I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING OF ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." 2. Jesus, the good shepherd, lays down his life for his sheep. All who are "His sheep" are brought by Him into the fold and are made to hear His voice and follow Him. Notice that the Father had given the sheep to Christ! John 10: 11,14-18: I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for THE SHEEP...I am the good shepherd; I KNOW MY OWN and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP. And I have OTHER SHEEP, that are not of this fold; I MUST BRING THEM ALSO, and they WILL heed my voice.......THIS CHARGE I HAVE RECEIVED FROM MY FATHER." John 10: 24-29: [the unbelieving Jews demanded of Him] "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Fathers name, they bear witness to me; but you do not believe, BECAUSE YOU DO NOT BELONG TO MY SHEEP. MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM AND THEY FOLLOW ME;AND I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE, AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, AND NO ONE IS ABLE TO SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. MY FATHER, WHO HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME, IS GREATER THAN ALL, AND NO ONE IS ABLE TO SNATCH THEM OUT OF THE FATHER'S HAND. See also: John 17: 1-11, 20, 24-26 Those who say you can lose your salvation are contradicting what the Bible says. If you are trusting in Christ,you are secure and can KNOW that you are his,and NOTHING can snatch you from God's hand. Sincerely, James Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 04:08 PM View Profile History The Justification's of Men: Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 12:16 PM Is the simple action of men in unbelief, endeavoring to make the word of God of none effect. as is the manner of some it has nothing to do with the integrity of the word of God. Some do chose to corrupt the word of God and a corrupted seed can not reproduce, here is an example: Some have put together a teaching unto themselves proclaiming that man in his fallen spiritual state can not exercise faith according to the word of God. He according to them does not have the ability to believe. The word of God tells man to choose whom he will serve: In this instruction we can see and hear man's ability to do just as the word of God instructs. This is always true!! The essence is on the word of God fro this same word teaches us that the word of God has the ability: To illuminate the heart of fallen man To produce faith in the heart of fallen man, as man cooperates with the word of God Every seed produces after it's own kind, in the light of the word of God the ability of the seed is in the seed declared. Here is an example: Ps 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. Any that will have an ear to hear this word and believe and receive it as their's in their heart will be healed. This is exactly what is declared in this scripture concerning being born again: 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. This not a work of the Holy Spirit it is the seed of God's word concerning the new birth that illuminates the heart of man then produces faith in the heart of man and then the confession of the mouth, and then the Holy Spirit removes the Old Spirit and puts in man's body a new spirit that is now alive unto God completely free of sin. Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 04:39 PM For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 According to you James, there are the elect and the non-elect. Those who God created for salvation and those who God created for damnation. So with that in mind, if the created elect are secure in their salvation, how do you explain the above passage? Some say, and you might too, that this is speaking of those who weren't really saved. But then are those who aren't really saved, enlightened? Have those who really aren't saved tasted the heavenly gift? Have those who really aren't saved been partakers of the Holy Ghost? According to the above passage, these are people who repented, were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift and were even made partakers of the Holy Ghost, but fell away and now it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. Do your non-elect, created for damnation people get a taste of heaven and then fall away? My thought would be that you'd have to answer, "no", because they are not the 'elect', therefore in your theology they are not even 'called'. So the above must be speaking of your 'elect'. But then if that is so, there goes your 'secure salvation'. Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 06:08 PM 71 said: For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 71 said: According to you James, James replies: Well, that is almost meaningless isn't it? IF..........I just came up with something on my own religious hunch, then that would mean next to nothing, and if it contradicted the early Church and the Reformers, and the vast majority of Christian scholarship, then it would certainly be wrong! But what I am saying is NOT just "according to James". It is according to Christians throughout church history. 71 said: there are the elect and the non-elect. James replies: Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 71 continues: Those who God created for salvation and those who God created for damnation. So with that in mind, if the created elect are secure in their salvation, how do you explain the above passage? Some say, and you might too, that this is speaking of those who weren't really saved. But then are those who aren't really saved, enlightened? Have those who really aren't saved tasted the heavenly gift? Have those who really aren't saved been partakers of the Holy Ghost? According to the above passage, these are people who repented, James replies: It does not say they repented. 71 continues: were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift and were even made partakers of the Holy Ghost, but fell away and now it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. Do your non-elect, created for damnation people get a taste of heaven and then fall away? My thought would be that you'd have to answer, "no", because they are not the 'elect', therefore in your theology they are not even 'called'. So the above must be speaking of your 'elect'. But then if that is so, there goes your 'secure salvation'. James replies: The Hebrews 6 verses are used all the time to say that a true Christian can lose their salvation. The problem is that this verse can be translated a few different ways, and IF I took the view that this means that true Christians can lose their salvation, then I will have several VERY CLEAR verses that say that a true Christian can NOT lose their salvation. You are taking an unclear verse, and by your interpretation making the Bible contradict itself. Now, to Hebrews 6, some scholars think that this is a warning to a Judaizing heretical sect, and that if they persisted in believing not just in Jesus, but faith plus works, that it would lead to a loss of all hope of salvation for them. Another interpretation has been that the author is describing apostates in terms of the blessings and profession they made so that it appeared they were genuine believers up until the moment of their apostacy. 6:4 "Once enlightened" They had the knowledge of the Gospel and were probably baptized. In the Early church, making a profession of faith and being baptized was called 'enlightenment'. "Tasted the Heavenly gift" This could be describing taking the Lord's Supper, or it could be a description of someone who apparently was converted "Partakers of the Holy Spirit" They had some experience with the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but this does not mean that you have to conclude that they were regenerated. "Powers of the age to come" They might very well have seen signs and wonders that the apostles did. but that still does not make it necessary to conclude that they were born again. 6:6 "Renew them again to repentance" There is a kind of falling away that is irreversible (1 John 5:16) Christian salvation is final and the decision to reject it. if made at a certain level, cannot be reversed. According to 1 John 2:19 anyone who makes such a decision was not really born again, even though they seemed to be. I think Judas is a very clear example of someone who participated in bringing in the Kingdom of God, but he did not enter it. You know 71, every time I post Scriptures for something, and some Arminian then gives me two scriptures why I am wrong, I then have a problem. You see, I have 40 Scriptures that are PLAIN and CLEAR that say that a true Christian can NOT lose their salvation, and if I take your interpretation of Hebrews 6 to mean that a True Christian can lose their salvation, then WHAT am I supposed to do with the other 40 verses that say you can not??? No Arminian ever answers that question. So, how about looking at all the verses that say that God's Chosen people can NOT lose their salvation? They do exist you know: Joh 6:37-40 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 06:12 PM No James manipulation of scripture is not scripture talking it is you, According to you scripture is never true until the Calvinist put there meaning on certain scriptures and the those are true according to you. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 06:37 PM James:ROFL: you didnt say anything or quote one scripture that proves your theory.. Its a lie of satan you speak in circles and try to make these verses fit what you believ but they do not, and all your references to scolars doesnt help your case any at all as the Bible warns against "high mindedness" and let me just tell you incase you didnt know.. Knowlege does not = wisdom Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 07:27 PM 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. John 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God." 2 Corinthians 5:18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, (14) to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 11:2-5 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, (3) Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. (4) But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:18-24 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (24) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Acts 10:40-41 "Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, (41) "not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, [even] to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. Ephesians 1:4-6 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (5) having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (6) to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, (5) who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Psalms 47:2-4 For the LORD Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. (3) He will subdue the peoples under us, And the nations under our feet. (4) He will choose our inheritance for us, The excellence of Jacob whom He loves. Selah Psalms 100:3 Know that the LORD, He [is] God; [It is] He [who] has made us, and not we ourselves; [We are] His people and the sheep of His pasture. Isaiah 44:6-8 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I [am] the First and I [am] the Last; Besides Me [there is] no God. (7) And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. (8) Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared [it]? You [are] My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed [there is] no other Rock; I know not [one]." Isaiah 26:1-15 In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: "We have a strong city; [God] will appoint salvation [for] walls and bulwarks. (2) Open the gates, That the righteous nation which keeps the truth may enter in. (3) You will keep [him] in perfect peace, [Whose] mind [is] stayed [on You], Because he trusts in You. (4) Trust in the LORD forever, For in YAH, the LORD, [is] everlasting strength. (5) For He brings down those who dwell on high, The lofty city; He lays it low, He lays it low to the ground, He brings it down to the dust. (6) The foot shall tread it down The feet of the poor [And] the steps of the needy." (7) The way of the just [is] uprightness; O Most Upright, You weigh the path of the just. (8) Yes, in the way of Your judgments, O LORD, we have waited for You; The desire of [our] soul [is] for Your name And for the remembrance of You. (9) With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments [are] in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (10) Let grace be shown to the wicked, [Yet] he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD. (11) LORD, [when] Your hand is lifted up, they will not see. But they will see and be ashamed For [their] envy of people; Yes, the fire of Your enemies shall devour them. (12) LORD, You will establish peace for us, For You have also done all our works in us. (13) O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; [But] by You only we make mention of Your name. (14) [They are] dead, they will not live; [They are] deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. (15) You have increased the nation, O LORD, You have increased the nation; You are glorified; You have expanded all the borders of the land. Deuteronomy 31:16-17 And the LORD said to Moses: "Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. (17) "Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?' Deuteronomy 31:20 "When I have brought them to the land flowing with milk and honey, of which I swore to their fathers, and they have eaten and filled themselves and grown fat, then they will turn to other gods and serve them; and they will provoke Me and break My covenant. Deuteronomy 31:27, 29 "for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If today, while I (Moses) am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD, then how much more after my death? (29) "For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days, because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands." Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ezekiel 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." Deuteronomy 29:4 "Yet the LORD has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this [very] day. 1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God [which was] with me. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us [is] God, (22) who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) has in these last days spoken to us by [His] Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; (3) who being the brightness of [His] glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple. John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Ephesians 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Ezekiel 37:1-14 The hand of the LORD came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. (2) Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. (3) And He said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" So I answered, "O Lord GOD, You know." (4) Again He said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, "O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! (5) "Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: "Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. (6) "I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD." (7) So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. (8) Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them. (9) Also He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." (10) So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army. (11) Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!" (12) "Therefore prophesy and say to them, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. (13) "Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. (14) "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it," says the LORD." Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 09:32 PM Elisha said: James you didnt say anything or quote one scripture that proves your theory.. Its a lie of satan you speak in circles and try to make these verses fit what you believ but they do not, and all your references to scolars doesnt help your case any at all as the Bible warns against "high mindedness" and let me just tell you incase you didnt know.. Knowlege does not = wisdom James replies: Matthew 1:21: "...She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will SAVE HIS PEOPLE from their sins. ' Elisha, we have many verses that show that Jesus died specifically for a group of people that God the Father had given Him. Here is Jesus SAYING that HE "Laid down His life for the sheep". NOT everyone in the whole world but The sheep the Father had given Him. I hope you will accept the Word of God on this Elisha.............. Joh 10:3-4 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice....Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep....Joh 10:14-15 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. In Christ, James Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 09:35 PM James that is a scripture that actually denys your doctrine, for in the heart of the father all are his people but not accept him as we know. Post Reply
View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 10:00 PM Joh 10:3-4 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice....Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep....Joh 10:14-15 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. James replies: So, Jesus SAYS that he laid down His life for the sheep, but PhillipJohn says that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived. Hmmm.....who should I believe? PhillipJohn or Jesus? Can anyone help me decide on this? In Christ, James Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	The EVIDENCE from the Bible that Jesus died SPECIFICALLY for His people.... Posted : 7 Nov, 2011 10:19 PM Jesus didnt want anyone to be damnd that is evident he wants everyone to recieve salvation, James we become his sheep when the spirit calls us and we accept it, we submit to him.. thats when we become his sheep and thats when we hear his voice.. He does the saving no doubt but we have got to submit to him if we dont we are still just as lost which makes us the non elect so if the spirit draws someone and the deny him and dont submit that makes him the non elect and that means the spirit draws more than just the ones who will become his chosen IE: the whole world he draws every man to repentence but someme are stuborn and proud and refuse to repent.. I dated a man who I was dating when I got saved I tried to get him to go to church but he would not.. one day we were watching jimmy swaggart or something a man came on singing amazing grace I looked over at this man who still is not saved and rejects salvation.. I could see him white knuckling (as us penecostals call it) his whole body shook as the spirit was dealing with him I had been praying for him and my pastor is his cousin he also had been praying and I know for a fact the Lord was dealing with him and drawing him I still believe he is but he rejects is because of is southern boy I am a man and I dont need anyone kind of pride.. so that proves it that God deals with everyone we have the option to submit or reject the gentel dealing of the sweet Holy Spirit Post Reply

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