Author	Thread: Just the Facts, please................
Admin	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 13 Nov, 2011 09:22 PM Just the facts, please... From Spurgeon's sermon, "Jacob and Esau" "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:15. There is a man up in the gallery there, that, work as hard as he likes, he cannot earn more than fifteen shillings a week. And here is another man that gets a thousand a year. What is the reason of this? One is born in the palaces of kings, while another draws his first breath in a roofless hovel. What is the reason of this? God's providence-- God puts one man in one position, and another man in another. Here is a man whose head cannot hold two thoughts together, do what you will with him. Here is another who can sit down and write a book, and dive into the deepest of questions. What is the reason of it? God has done it. Do you not see the fact that God does not treat every man alike? He has made some eagles, and some worms; some he has made lions, and some creeping lizards; he has made some men kings, and some are born beggars. Some are born with gigantic minds, and some verge on the idiot. Why is this? Do you murmur at God for it? No. You say it is a fact, and there is no good in murmuring. What is the use of kicking against facts? It is only kicking against the thorns with naked feet, and you hurt yourself and not them. Well, then, election is a positive fact. It is as clear as daylight, that God does, in matters of religion, give to one man more than to another. He gives to me opportunities of hearing the word, which he does not give to the Hottentot. He gives to me, parents who, from infancy, trained me in the fear of the Lord. He does not give that to many of you. He places me afterwards in situations where I am restrained from sin. Other men are cast into places where their sinful passions are developed. He gives, to one man a disposition which keeps him back from some lust, and to another man he gives such impetuosity of spirit, and depravity turns that impetuosity so much, that the man runs headlong into sin. Again, he brings one man under the sound of a powerful ministry, while another sits and listens to a preacher whose drowsiness is only exceeded by that of his hearers. And even when they are hearing the gospel, the fact is God works in one heart when he does not in another. Though, I believe to a degree, the Spirit works in the hearts of all who hear the Word, so that they are all without excuse, yet I am sure he works in some so powerfully, that they can no longer resist him, but are constrained by his grace to cast themselves at his feet, and confess him Lord of all; while others resist the grace that comes into their hearts; and it does not act with the same irresistible force that it does in the other case, and they perish in their sins, deservedly and justly condemned. Are not these things facts? Does any man deny them? Can any man deny them? What is the use of kicking against facts? What, then, is the use of our discussing any longer? We had better believe it, since it is an undeniable truth. You may alter an opinion, but you cannot alter a fact. You may change a mere doctrine, but you cannot possibly change a thing which actually exists. There it is--God does certainly deal with some men better than he does with others. I will not offer an apology for God; he can explain his own dealings; he needs no defence from me. There stands the fact. Before you begin to argue upon the doctrine, just recollect, that whatever you may think about it, you cannot alter it; and however much you may object to it, it is actually true that God did love Jacob, and did not love Esau. WHY did God love Jacob? Because of his sovereign grace. There was nothing in Jacob that could make God love him; there was everything about him, that might have made God hate him, as much as he did Esau, and a great deal more. But it was because God was infinitely gracious, that he loved Jacob, and because he was sovereign in his dispensation of this grace, that he chose Jacob as the object of that love. "He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy." And rest assured, the only reason why any of us can hope to be saved is this- the sovereign grace of God. There is no reason why I should be saved, or why you should be saved, but God's own merciful heart, and God's own omnipotent will. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 13 Nov, 2011 09:51 PM This all me be facts, but the fact remains that salvation is avalible for all, anyone who will submit it says if the believe in their hearts they will be saved, the god that just throws some people in hell and some he takes to heaven no matter what may be soverign but he is not merciful, he is not full of grace and love and he is not just.. that is not just I dont care which way you twist it.. Love ya though james I dont have doubts about your salvation because I am not your juge you say you are saved I take your word on that, but you are decieved, Jesus die for the whole world because God so loved the WORLD!!! no way around it, Post Reply
View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 13 Nov, 2011 10:00 PM This is not fact but reformation theology, The fact is God is not a respecter of Person's The fact is God is Love The fact is the father never changes and his word never changes The fact is if you do not believe his written word, it is dishonour just as it was from the beginning. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 13 Nov, 2011 10:03 PM OHHH PJ I had forgoten that verse that God is no respector of persons, hahaha well thats another one that blows it out of the water so to speak... If God just randomly chooses people to be his chosen and leavs the rest to damnation then he would be a respector of persons. But I am quite sure someone has an explanation! Post Reply
View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 06:33 AM Well elisha, I have given up on PJ because I have asked him MANY MANY TIMES to DEAL WITH THE SCRIPTURES GIVEN, but he refuses. You just get one line complaints, and somehow he thinks a thinking Christian is going to be persuaded by his negative comment. The verse given was from ROMANS ( "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated..." Now, I am asking YOU Elisha, or anyone else who wishes to interpret Romans 9, please tell me what Paul is teaching in Romans 9 In Christ, James. Post Reply
View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 08:10 AM "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated..." *** Esau did not count his Blessing to come from the LORD God above...He sold his Birth Rightit to his brother Jacob to fill his belly with food of this World...he fed into the flesh therefor and when all was done and said...though Jacob and his mother sinned...the Lord saw more the Desire of Jacob to Please the LORD that sits on high...than the Desire of Esau to fill and feed his flesh...xo Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 09:06 AM James I looked up the word hated,in the greek it actuly means loved less, also this is not a representation of the persons of jacob and esau, but it is a typology (big word I learned from my daddy) the words loved and hated are used as comparisons, and jacab is a type of the church or the children of the spirit,esau is a type of the chidren of the flesh, this is undisputable and I am quite sure you are aware of this as all through the bible there are types, now that being said,It still boils down to did we make a choice or were we chosen, both are true, first God calls us then we either submit or we rebell if we submit we become chosen or Jacob if we rebell we become a child of the flesh which is also represented rather well in the story of abraham,hagar and ishmael, abraham chose to try to make Gods promise to him come true through his flesh and MAKING A CHOICE HE KNEW HAGAR AND SHE BECOME PREGNANT, this makes ishmael a child of the flesh.. so there was a choice made abraham never had to do what he did, then there is also the fact the God works through covenants and a conenant is a contract right? it is an agreement now there has to be 2 sides to an agreement my dear, God made a covenant with Abraham, ok that means he made an agreement with him but abraham, abraham was to be circumsised and all of his chldren and he was to remain faithful to God and in return God was going to make him a great nation and bless them, but Abraham could have said you know lord I just dont want to move my tent that way I want to go the other direction, abraham chose to go to the land God showed him anyway I got off my point which is this Jacob is a type pf a christian and esau was a type of non believer and God hated this type of non believer but it only means he loved him less it doesnt mean he hated him. The same could be said in proverbs it says he who spres the rod hateth his child, nobody hates their children in the way people use the word today it means the dont love them as much as they chould or they love them less I will have to investigate further the meaning of the word that is translated hate in the hebrew but if I gambeld I would bet it is not the gefinition we use for hate Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 09:13 AM In addition.. doesnt Jesus say somewhere in the gospels, luke I think that no body cn be his disciple unless he hates his mother,father,wife,brothers sisters and himself. now does that mean Jesus wants us to hate our families? No it does not it simply means we are to love them less than we love jesus same with Jacob and esau God did not despise esau he simply loved him less as evidence by his many blessings on Jacob, does God not favor the saved? Does that mean that he doesnt love the unsaved certainly not it just means he favors the ones who are saved....:yay::yay::yay::yay: I am not as stupid as I thought I was:applause::applause: Post Reply
View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 10:06 AM James any one that is spiritual can read this post and readily know that is written by one that try's to commune God as a natural man. You say you interpret the word, and you do, that is called pride, and it is none by the fruit of responses. I say according to the word of God we are to believe what is written, and the Spirit of Truth is avilable to help all that will allow him to reveal the truth to them. For any one to say God hates any man or woman as hate is known in this world, is simply admitting you know not love. Post Reply
View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 10:29 AM For Jude and Elisha, or anyone reading this post I am willing to answer any question scriptually as I always do but as the pattern is here and in this particular example, responses are either ignored or denied as truth. So James I can and will respond in a post and answer calvinism, it is very simple to do. Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	Just the Facts, please................ Posted : 14 Nov, 2011 02:00 PM I am pretty sure if someone is truly seeking out truth and not just trying to be a dirty defence lawer that twists the truth to make his case, they will see what I said is what was meant and what she be believd about this scripture romans 9:12.. God Bless you all.. I am praying God opens your eyes and helps you with your pride so you can except you are wrong and have been decieved I know it hurts when you realize your wrong but dont let that sting to your pride keep you from the truth:applause: Post Reply

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