Thread: Bad Theology is caused by Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions about God and how He works.
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Bad Theology is caused by Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions about God and how He works.
Posted : 4 Dec, 2011 04:29 PM
Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions the Cause of Unsound Theology
There is a tremendous need for cogent thinking among our leaders and teachers in the church today. Theological literature and sermons brim over with unsound and invalid reasoning. We must, therefore, be extra discriminating in what we read and who we listen to from the pulpit. Even though many in the pews have not had formal education in logic, more and more people sense there is something wrong in what they hear even if they cannot put their finger exactly on what it is. When we hear preachers expound mutually exclusive propositions or contradictory assertions, while we may not have the communication skills to confront the preacher ourselves, yet we feel uneasy about it and this feeling lingers on.
It is important to note that consistency and logic (like omniscience, justice and mercy) are among the perfections of God. Lest you doubt the validity of this assertion, the Scripture itself teaches this. Jesus Himself said that He is "...the Truth" and later in the same gospel he states that God's Word is Truth (John 17:17). These statements, of course, would be utterly meaningless if it did not mean that Jesus was opposed to all falsehood. The conclusion we must, therefore, reach is simply that God's Word does not contradict itself. We should also note that the Scripture affirms that God is Holy. This assertion means nothing if His character in any way contradicts this. In other words, God cannot be unholy or cannot do what is contrary to His own nature. Likewise the Text affirms that God keeps his promises, does not lie, nor does God have the capacity to deny Himself. Since this means God cannot contradict Himself in what he says, does and believes, then He calls us to do likewise (Be truthful, holy, keep your promises, do not lie). God Himself, as revealed in Scripture, is the ultimate presupposition we have in being consistent and logical in everything we say and do, and this is especially true for those who would be teachers of God's word.
The above concepts are important because much of the bad theology we come across, is no so much a conscious conspiracy to purposefully deceive, but comes from poor thinking from who hold to inconsistent theological propositions; that is, propositions that cancel each other out. One prominent example of this can be seen in the very influential theology of Lewis Sperry Chafer, who was Founder, President and Professor or Systematic Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary: The godfather of Dispensationalism. In 1948 he published a Systematic Theology. In Volume III chapter X under Soteriology, Chafer writes a chapter entitled "For Whom did Christ Die?". This chapter was perhaps one of the main springboards for the common belief among most Dispensationalists in unlimited redemption (or 4-point Calvinism) which he calls the "moderate Calvinist" position.
On page 184 of his Systematic Theology, Chafer when describing his own position (often in the third person) says, "The men who belong to this school [unlimited redemption] of interpretation defend all of the five points of Calvinism excepting one, namely, "Limited Atonement"...Men of this group believe that Christ died actually and fully for all men of this age alike, that God has ordained that the gospel shall be preached to all for whom Christ died, and that through the proclamation of the gospel He will exercise His sovereign power in saving His elect...that the death of Christ, being forensic, is a sufficient ground for any and every man to be saved, should the Spirit of God choose to draw him. They contend that the death of Christ of itself saves no man, either actually or potentially, but that it does render all men savable; that salvation is wrought of God alone, and at the time the individual believes." Later in the same chapter he says"...faith must be wrought in the unsaved by the Holy Spirit.. only the elect will be saved [and] whatever Christ did, whether for the elect or non-elect, is suspended awaiting compliance on the part of the unsaved with the divinely imposed conditions.... the highway of divine election is quite apart from the highway of redemption [187]"
Then on the next page Chafer states that even though "faith is divinely wrought in the human heart" "...The unlimited redemptionist believes that while Christ died provisionally for all men, the benefit is applied only when the condition of personal saving faith is met." Later on page 193 he similarly states that "It is confidently held by all Calvinists [he includes himself] that the elect will, in God's time and way, every one, be saved, and that the unregenerate believe only as they are enabled to by the Spirit of God; but the question here is whether the sacrifice of Christ is the only divine instrumentality whereby God actually saves the elect, or whether that sacrifice is a divine word, finished, indeed, with regard to its scope and purpose, which renders all men savable, but one applied in sovereign grace by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit only when the individual believes....The unlimited redemptionist claims that the value of Christ's death is extended to all men, but the elect alone come, by divine grace wrought by an effectual call, into its fruition, which the non-elect are not called but are those passed by. They hold that God indicated who are the elect not at the cross, but by the effectual call and at the time of regeneration [194]." Then on page 198 he openly acknowledges that "Christ bore all the individuals sins except unbelief".
The purpose for sharing these Chafer quotes on the extent of Christ's death with you is not to show you that Chafer is merely wrong in his four-point Calvinism, but rather, that his own writing contradicts itself. In other words, I will show that he already believes the premise of effectual calling for the elect only so he must believe the implications of that premise (limited atonement). For take note of the text that I highlighted above. In each case Chafer is acknowledging, along with all Calvinists, that divine grace is wrought by an effectual call only to the elect, to the exclusion of the non-elect and that the elect believes only as they are enabled to do so by the Holy Spirit. Yet he also, at the same time, affirms that Christ died for all men (elect and non-elect) in the same way and with the same intent. It is important to immediately expose the contradictory nature of these statements which have pervaded the thinking of Dispensationalists to this day and thus caused an unnecessary rift among Calvinists.
The question they need to ask themselves is does the Holy Spirit draw the elect on the basis of Christ's work or not? Can there be such a thing as a Christless effectual call? Can the cross be separated from irresistible grace? Is there a divine benevolence toward us apart from the person and work of Christ? Does not Eph 1:3 assert that all spiritual blessings are found in Christ? Are the purposes of the Trinity at odds with one another? Does the Holy Spirit work and glorify Christ apart from the grace of Christ? Chafer, in other words, would have us believe that our election in Christ comes apart from the grace of Christ. That our effectual call of the Holy Spirit is completely unrelated to the person and work of Christ. Herein lies the contradiction: In asserting that only the elect receive effectual grace he is already acknowledging that Christ died in a way for the elect that he did not for the non-elect, for effectual grace is only given to them -- and that grace cannot be separated from Christ.
It is important to recognize through this exercise that Chafer already believes particular redemption, perhaps without consciously knowing it. And this is usually, if not always, the case with bad theology. There is a tendency to forget how everything is inter-related. By rejecting limited atonement he is contradicting other beliefs he holds (irresistible grace). The fact is that limited atonement and irresistible grace are both two sides of the same coin that cannot be pulled apart as if by scientific experiment. For you cannot have irresistible grace without Christ and his work on the cross. All redemptive blessings find their origin in Christ.
But we should remember that in pointing out such obvious contradictions it still does not necessarily stop people from holding to contradictions. Intellectual defeat does not guarantee that someone's heart is changed. Showing people their logical inconsistencies has a great deal of force but they also have to want to change. Many times it is a matter of the will and thus we must engage persons of this sort with a great deal of prayer to God that He might disarm their hostility to revealed doctrine.. Nonetheless they ought to except it... in fact, they have a moral obligation to do so when shown plainly that their assertions contradict one another. But you may ask me, but if they believe it in some sense already why should we urge them to be obligated to change? Answer: Because just as the unbeliever knows God but suppresses that truth in unrighteousness (as in Romans 1) so the believer who holds mutually contradictory assertions is refusing to yield to something he already knows to be true. If you believe something and do not act on it, you are living and thinking inconsistently, and this is also a sin.
Bad Theology is caused by Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions about God and how He works.
Posted : 4 Dec, 2011 05:28 PM
SirJames and Donna:
I have never seen two people who claimed to be so thoroughly knowlegeable and spiritual, yet who were so weak that all they could come up with to post in a forum about the Living God and How Perfectly Wondrous He is, was something that someone else wrote!
This constant running to the arm of the flesh, for "Theological Filler", to make you appear to be shepherds, demonstrates a lack of respect for the Word of God, Who wrote:
"Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." [Jer 17:5]
This behavior is wicked, hypocritical, and religious in appearance! It is sad that neither of you, have anything truly positive about the Lord, to write of!
Everyone, take notice, that it is better to not post something, than to merely post another's works; because this demonstrates a lack of respect for the Living God, Whose empowering of His people, is unlimited and unfathomable.
The Apostle Paul, himself, wrote that a true disciple was not to merely follow in another's footsteps:
"My one ambition is to proclaim the gospel where the name of the Messiah is not known, so I don't build on someone else's foundation." [Romans 15:20]
Another scripture which proves that you two's constant posting of another's works, is not of the Holy Spirit, is this:
"When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.� [Luke 12:11-12]
Now, I understand that this verse is talking about the anointing being given when it is needed, in the time of trial; but that same anointing is there for the true believer, in every respect.
Do you not believe, that "if you ask, it will be given to you"?
Do you not believe, that "if you seek, you shall find"?
Do you not believe, that "if you knock, the same door will be opened to you, that was opened to other saints?"
Where is true faith in this incessant copying and pasting of other's works?
Haven't you felt the Father's gracious presence, the Spirit's Anointing, or the Loving Words of the Lord Jesus, Himself, that your life is so impacted that you have to share it with the World?
Bad Theology is caused by Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions about God and how He works.
Posted : 4 Dec, 2011 07:06 PM
AWM said:
SirJames and Donna:
I have never seen two people who claimed to be so thoroughly knowlegeable and spiritual, yet who were so weak that all they could come up with to post in a forum about the Living God and How Perfectly Wondrous He is, was something that someone else wrote!
James replies:
Yes, And you believe this because you are so arrogant AND ignorant at the same time.
We believe that the "the faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints" (Jude) has not changed, and that because of that we need to listen to what the church has said for the last two thousand years.
YOU, on the other hand in your arrogance actually think your private religious hunches are infallible, and the collective wisdom of the church is something we should all ignore.
I really can't decide of you are just another Gnostic crackpot, or teenager who is all emotion and ego.
awm continues:
This constant running to the arm of the flesh, for "Theological Filler", to make you appear to be shepherds, demonstrates a lack of respect for the Word of God, Who wrote:
"Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." [Jer 17:5]
James replies:
Yes, that makes no sense whatsoever.
The very next sentence in the section you quoted is:
"Whose heart departs from the Lord."
Now YOU used that sentence to say that we should be like you and rely on our own private religious hunches INSTEAD of listening to the collective wisdom of the church.
The Bible says that God has raised up teachers for us, and that we should listen to them and check what they say against Scripture.
YOU, since you are advocating IGNORING the collective wisdom of the church, are the one who is
"running to the arm of the flesh"
awm said:
This behavior is wicked, hypocritical, and religious in appearance! It is sad that neither of you, have anything truly positive about the Lord, to write of!
James replies:
That is a lie. Check out the past threads and you WILL find that I say positive things about the Lord.
awm said:
Everyone, take notice, that it is better to not post something, than to merely post another's works; because this demonstrates a lack of respect for the Living God, Whose empowering of His people, is unlimited and unfathomable.
James replies:
OR....they could read proverbs where it says THREE TIMES:
"There is wisdom in many counselors:
and they could read in the New Testament where it says that we Christians NEED the body of Christ.
Do you have even ONE verse where you can show us that the Bible says to ignore many counselors, and the body of Christ, and just listen to your private religious hunches???
awm said:
The Apostle Paul, himself, wrote that a true disciple was not to merely follow in another's footsteps:
"My one ambition is to proclaim the gospel where the name of the Messiah is not known, so I don't build on someone else's foundation." [Romans 15:20]
James replies:
Here Paul is talking about preaching in towns and villages where Jesus was never preached before. This has nothing to do with your private religious hunches.
awm said:
Another scripture which proves that you two's constant posting of another's works, is not of the Holy Spirit, is this:
"When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.� [Luke 12:11-12]
James replies:
This is Jesus talking to Christians who would be arrested and brought before the authorities.
This also has nothing to do with your private religious hunches.
awm said:
Now, I understand that this verse is talking about the anointing being given when it is needed, in the time of trial; but that same anointing is there for the true believer, in every respect.
Do you not believe, that "if you ask, it will be given to you"?
Do you not believe, that "if you seek, you shall find"?
Do you not believe, that "if you knock, the same door will be opened to you, that was opened to other saints?"
Where is true faith in this incessant copying and pasting of other's works?
James replies:
awm, you live in an anti-historical age. You imagine that you are smarter than Christians who lived in the past, and you are wrong. You think your private religious hunches are infallible, and that the collective wisdom of the church is no where near as wise as you. you are wrong. Your faith in yourself is quite strong, and you need to humble yourself. Christians in the past were just as smart as you, and sometimes much smarter. They studied the Bible just like you do, and some of them for MANY more years than you have.
The Bible says exactly the same thing now as it did in 150AD.
If a person is TRULY wise, they will study church history, the rules of interpretation, and the writings of the Reformers and the Puritans. IF....we are trying to be wise, we should know and respect what the Early Christians believed, and Christians throughout the last two thousand years.
In Christ,
James
Haven't you felt the Father's gracious presence, the Spirit's Anointing, or the Loving Words of the Lord Jesus, Himself, that your life is so impacted that you have to share it with the World?
Bad Theology is caused by Inconsistent Underlying Assumptions about God and how He works.
Posted : 5 Dec, 2011 05:26 AM
I do study church history. I have read from Paul to Chrysostom, to Origen, to Justin Martyr, to Augustine, to Kemper, to Whitefield, and yes to Calvin..
Your view of a collective consciousness, a collective wisdom, has nothing to do with the body of Christ, which while being one body, is led individually:
"But in all these works that one and same Spirit, dividing to every man individually as he will." [I Cor 12:11]
There is only ONE wisdom, and all believers are subject to it.
Notice the singularity of specificity, not group theology: "Do unto others as YOU'D [not a group], have them to unto YOU!"
The gospel is singular then outward, not outward then singular. In other words, it is applicable where it counts, in the heart of a man, one at a time, jointly as "the Body of Christ".
It is as I have stated time and time again, you have been exposed to the Word, now it is time - perhaps - for the Word to teach you its true purpose in the World, which is to draw men unto Christ, men of the Father's Choosing:
"No man cometh unto me except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day." [John 6:44]
The POWER of God, is not in a man's wielding the word, but in the word wielding him.
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, for IT is the power of God unto salvation .." [Romans 1:16]
So much for your communicable theology.
"Flesh and blood hath not revealed this to YOU [Peter] but my Father which is in heaven".
Your answers to others are often arrogant and nasty, filled with accusations and horrific insults; WHY? Because you want your will, your perspective of what theology - in your mind - ought to be, as per your having been trained by men.
Your earlier comment to me, that you would cease in referring to me as "a Wacko", if I would do as you demanded of me, is so Calvinistic, and antichrist.
Notice how your behavior - your mocking and snied comments - towards others, was/is not predicated on complete obedience to the scripture, but was dependent upon whether I acquiesce, aka "bowed the knee to you".
You told me, "I will grant that you are a wise man" if I bow the knee to you. But that will not make me wise; it will merely prove that I am deceived; DECEIVED into thinking that I need your approval to be WISE.
I bow the knee to no man. I am not on this earth for you to monkey with. Who are you, that you think to command men to do your bidding?
The problem with you, is that you have never had an example of what it means to "be a real man", to show you what it is to be one.
Your mind has been warped with all of this evil stuff, you wish to infer is gracious behavior. You are really just a whiny baby, who threatens to beat people up, if you cannot have it your way. You have been trying to "beat me up" with words.
Your's is a religion which bears no genuine fruit. You are a true Calvinist, aka one who seeks his will, and will put others to death if he doesn't get it.
Now, before you go and lie, and state, "I am not trying to put you to death", oh, yes you are. You are refusing me the right to live before God as my heart and mind dictates, and therein you are the most horrible of men, just like Cauvin was. When he and those nasty hypocrites in Geneva, could not get everyone to do what they wanted, and say what they wanted; they tortured them to death, to allow others, through those PUBLIC EXECUTIONS, not to see Who God truly is, but to fear the men who were doing this deed.
I DO NOT FEAR YOU! I FEAR NO MAN!
I have been commanded to "FEAR NOT", and no amount of words, whether written or spoken, can cause me to think that you are greater than GOD!
