Thread: Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
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Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 01:04 AM
Hello everyone:
The topic of speaking and praying in a tongue stirs up a lot of bad blood on this site.
Any way,i iwll begin the stirring of the pot of beef stew ( I like beef stew).
1Co 14:10 So it may be many kinds of sounds are in the world, and not one is without distinct sound.
1Co 14:11 If, then, I do not know the power of the sound, I will be a foreigner to the one speaking, and he speaking to me, a foreigner.
1Co 14:12 So also you, since you are zealots of spiritual things, seek to build up the assembly that you may abound.
1Co 14:13 So then, the one speaking in a language, let him pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the mind.
1Co 14:16 Else, if you bless in the spirit, the one occupying the place of the unlearned, how will he say the amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you say?
1Co 14:17 For you truly give thanks well, but the other is not built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God that I speak more languages than all of you.
1Co 14:19 But in an assembly I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may also instruct others, than myriads of words in a foreign language.
1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your minds, but in malice be like infants, and in your minds be mature.
Let us have a few definitions of some words to help in making this clear.
English-Gifts
Greek-Charisma / 'GRACE'
G5486
charisma
Thayer Definition:
1) a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
2) the gift of divine grace
3) the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
4) the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
5) grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G5483
English-MIND / understanding
Greek-NOUS
G3563
nous
Thayer Definition:
1) the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining
1a) the intellectual faculty, the understanding
1b) reason in the narrower sense, as the capacity for spiritual truth, the higher powers of the soul, the faculty of perceiving divine things, of recognising goodness and of hating evil
1c) the power of considering and judging soberly, calmly and impartially
2) a particular mode of thinking and judging, i.e thoughts, feelings, purposes, desires
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: probably from the base of G1097
Enlish-UNFRUITFUL
Greek- akarpos:
G175
akarpos: unfruitful
Original Word: ἄκαρπος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: akarpos
Phonetic Spelling: (ak'-ar-pos)
Short Definition: unfruitful, barren
Definition: unfruitful, barren, profitless.
175 �karpos (an adjective, from 1 /A "not" and 2590 /karp�s, "fruit") � properly, unfruitful.
175 /�karpos ("unfruitful") refers to any thought (action) not originated and empowered by the Lord, i.e. not born of faith (birthed and empowered by God).
By definition, all decisions that are not born "of faith are sin" (Ro 14:23) � which automatically renders them eternally fruitless ("a waste"). This is the case regardless of how impressive or acceptable they are in the eyes of the world.
Could we have a Great discussion on this particular Scriptures.
I believe the end result will be a change in the understanding of some,
While others will continue with their minds having been hardened.
Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 07:17 AM
this scripture is about the importance of prophisy and it is clear that he is saying the praying in tounges is to strengthen yourself,not the church AND it is a sign (evidence) for ubbekievers! speaking in tounges adressing the church should always come with interpritation! when someone asresses the church in unknown tounges we are intructed to ppray that it may be interpreted!
also we are intructed to pray in our own language (understanding) and pRAY IN THE SPIRIT (IN TOUNGES)
its very clear to me the meaning of this scripture! Paul is giving insruction to the church in corinth but it goes for everyone and he is trying to keep order in the church and let them know what the gifts are for like praying in tounges does nothing but edify the one that is praying if you have ever done this then you know afterwards you are strengthened
you must be filled with the Holy spirit to even understand this scripture you can see the words and know what each word means but if you arent spirit filled you wont understand it
spirit filling and spirit indwelling are not the same things I am prety sure watchman nee exppounded on that topic in the normal Christian life
1Cr 14:1 � Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Cr 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Cr 14:6 � Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Cr 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Cr 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Cr 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Cr 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.
1Cr 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.
1Cr 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Cr 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Cr 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
1Cr 14:20 � Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
1Cr 14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Cr 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Cr 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Cr 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Cr 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
1Cr 14:26 � How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 09:38 AM
Interesting thread. I know that this seems to be a touchy subject amongst our fellow brethren and usually turns out to be a "heated" discussion in the end due to "emotional (for lack of a better word)" bias on both ends. BUT I do believe that this can easily be discussed and learned from by all who participate and read if done with love and respect from ALL sides of the fence.
With that being said, I'd like to ask the topic writer to show me the first example of tongues being spoken of in Scripture with a clear and simple position that the tw (topic writer) has on the subject to show it as a clear standard to follow along in the 1 Corinthians 14 chapter.
Thank you and May the light and love of out Lord and Savior be in and upon all who read, and participate in this.
Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 25 Dec, 2011 03:09 PM
agapeton (still loving that you chose that name)
There are different types of tounges mentioned in scripture the word means language and the tounges in acts is not the same tounges spoken of in some parts of corinthians the prayer tounge or prayer language is for the personal edification and strenthening of the believer and for outward evidence that one has been babtized with the Ho;y ghost and fire! The gift of tounges is a language or tounge "of angels" a heaveny tounge that is spoken in messeges to the body however when this happens we are instructed to pray for an interpretation.. now that being said there is tounges from acts chapter 2 this is when people are speaking there own language but people hear them in their own language.. we know this is a different thing from corinthians as paul intructs us to pray that we get the interprtaion in corinthians as in acts there is no need for an interpreter as the people had the understanding they hears it in their own language so ther are very obviouse differences in these occurances ..
I would encourge everyone not to underestimate our god he is HUGE and Powerful he can do any and everythingi inclduing give us a language to pray in as we are nothing but wretched dirty filthy men and we dont alwasy know what it is we need to pray for and how to pray but he knows therefor if we allow the spirit to pray for us by speaking when He gives utterence then we can pray the way we need to pray my prayers are not sufficiant nothing I do is sufficiant, He has to do all things I am nothing I can do nothing without Him, including pray and having faith.. I cant even love my neighbors right without His love
Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 26 Dec, 2011 10:50 AM
Elishabroadway, Thanks for liking the fact that I picked that name of agapeton. It is the first Greek word I learned when I came to Christ and started me on my search for the ultimate love that Christ can offer to all who accept Him. I've learned plenty of the Koine Greek since then.
Thank you for what you stated. It was informative and I appreciate your response, sister. I look forward to discussing this subject further with you according to what you have stated on it with respect and love that I hope will be amply reciprocated. I will enjoy being edified by you and sharing in the abundance of revelation that the Lord of clarity, and Father of light will bring us while we participate in this, because i believe that all who read can be blessed by Him.
With that being said, let me begin to address(be they questions or answers according to what I've studied) what you said with quotations along side them.
My original question to the topic writer was:
"I'd like to ask the topic writer to show me the first example of tongues being spoken of in Scripture with a clear and simple position that the tw (topic writer) has on the subject to show it as a clear standard to follow along in the 1 Corinthians 14 chapter."
You said:
There are different types of tounges mentioned in scripture the word means language and the tounges in acts is not the same tounges spoken of in some parts of corinthians
ME: I see, sister. Thanks for pointing this out. I actually was looking for another example, or type of tongues mentioned in Scripture and could only come up with the Acts 2 account of it. I couldn't for the life of me find any other example in it so I did a word search for it. I did find the word tongues in Scripture though. It is the Greek word GLOSSA. That word is used in the New Testament around twenty-something times and it is also used in the Acts 2 chapter and 1 Corinthians 14 chapter. I still see no other example of this different types of tongues in the Word. I even looked at my Italian Bible and several other linguistic translations and found no other example than the Acts account, so it would lead me to conclude that this tongues (glossa) is the same tongues that Paul is speaking of in the 1 Corinthians chapter. Do you agree? If not, then can you show me another word to show that there is another type of "tongues"? Thanks in advance.
YOU: "the prayer tounge or prayer language is for the personal edification and strenthening of the believer and for outward evidence that one has been babtized with the Ho;y ghost and fire
The gift of tounges is a language or tounge "of angels" a heaveny tounge that is spoken in messeges to the body however when this happens we are instructed to pray for an interpretation.. now that being said there is tounges from acts chapter 2 this is when people are speaking there own language but people hear them in their own language.. we know this is a different thing from corinthians as paul intructs us to pray that we get the interprtaion in corinthians as in acts there is no need for an interpreter as the people had the understanding they hears it in their own language so ther are very obviouse differences in these occurances ..
I would encourge everyone not to underestimate our god he is HUGE and Powerful he can do any and everythingi inclduing give us a language to pray in as we are nothing but wretched dirty filthy men and we dont alwasy know what it is we need to pray for and how to pray but he knows therefor if we allow the spirit to pray for us by speaking when He gives utterence then we can pray the way we need to pray my prayers are not sufficiant nothing I do is sufficiant, He has to do all things I am nothing I can do nothing without Him, including pray and having faith.. I cant even love my neighbors right without His love "
ME: Thank you, sister. I really do appreciate what you wrote about the prayer language and how it is to help us on our daily endeavors and I agree!
I do have other questions about what you wrote but i think it would be best and fair to you, me, and the silent reader if we start with what you said first and slowly work things out from there. Now, let me make my intentions known and abundantly clear so that emotions, intentions, characters, and beliefs do not get taken advantage of with unnecessary words that get thrown about. Also, please know that I am simply trying to get a clearer understanding of this study that was laid out and NOT because i'm trying to be contentious, mind you, but because i tend to be the inquisitive type and think that there has to be a foundation for every school of thought in Scripture that can be researched and proved within its context.
So with that being said, I leave my first question open and leave it off with this observation and request.
"YOU:There are different types of tounges mentioned in scripture the word means language and the tounges in acts is not the same tounges spoken of in some parts of corinthians
ME: I see, sister. Thanks for pointing this out. I actually was looking for another example, or type of tongues mentioned in Scripture and could only come up with the Acts 2 account of it. I couldn't for the life of me find any other example in it so I did a word search for it. I did find the word tongues in Scripture though. It is the Greek word GLOSSA. That word is used in the New Testament around twenty-something times and it is also used in the Acts 2 chapter and 1 Corinthians 14 chapter. I still see no other example of this different types of tongues in the Word. I even looked at my Italian Bible and several other linguistic translations and found no other example than the Acts account, so it would lead me to conclude that this tongues (glossa) is the same tongues that Paul is speaking of in the 1 Corinthians chapter. Do you agree? If not, then can you show me another word to show that there is another type of "tongues"? Thanks in advance."
Could we STUDY this very interesting Scripture about Speaking and Praying in spirit!
Posted : 28 Dec, 2011 07:09 AM
Hello Agapeton:
I tried twice to post the Scriptutres and the references,and both times, flubber was the result.
As you have stated the English word 'Tongue' is used primarily throughout the New Covenant,yet there are a few other words also used.
John 5:2
(KJV) Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
(KJV+) NowG1161 there isG2076 atG1722 JerusalemG2414 byG1909 theG3588 sheepG4262 market a pool,G2861 which is calledG1951 in the Hebrew tongueG1447 Bethesda,G964 havingG2192 fiveG4002 porches.G4745
(LITV) And at Jerusalem is a pool at the Sheep Gate which is called in Hebrew, Bethesda, having five porches. (YLT) and there is in Jerusalem by the sheep- gate a pool that is called in Hebrew Bethesda, having five porches,
The word 'TONGUE' here is the same word in each Scripture,from the Acts of the Holy Spirit.
Thayer Definition: 1) conversation, speech, discourse, language
2) the tongue or language peculiar to any people Part of Speech:
noun
feminine
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G1256
Act_1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act_2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act_2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act_21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Act_22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the goads.
Revelation 9:11
(KJV) And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV+) AndG2532 they hadG2192 a kingG935 overG1909 them,G846 which is theG3588 angelG32 of theG3588 bottomless pit,G12 whoseG846 nameG3686 in the Hebrew tongueG1447 is Abaddon,G3 butG2532 inG1722 theG3588 Greek tongueG1673 hathG2192 his nameG3686 Apollyon.
G623 (LITV) And they have a king over them, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name was Abaddon, and in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
(YLT) and they have over them a king--the messenger of the abyss--a name is to him in Hebrew, Abaddon, and in the Greek he hath a name, Apollyon.
Tongues
1 Corinthians 14:21
(KJV) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(KJV+) InG1722 theG3588 lawG3551 it is written,G1125 WithG1722 men of other tonguesG2084 andG2532 other(G1722) G2087 lipsG5491 will I speakG2980 unto thisG5129 people;G2992 andG2532 yet for all thatG3779 will they notG3761 hearG1522 me,G3450 saithG3004 the Lord.G2962
(LITV) It has been written in the Law, "By other languages" and "by other lips" "I will speak to this people," "and even so they will not hear" Me, says the Lord. Isa. 28:11, 12
(YLT) in the law it hath been written, that, `With other tongues and with other lips I will speak to this people, and not even so will they hear Me, saith the Lord;'
These are the other words concerning 'Tongue' and 'Tongues',
