this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 02:52 AM
It is crazyness when I crear up something I said and peole still come back argueing as if I never said it!
When I made it clear that I was aware God does not ever take away his gifts but rather we choose not to use the gifts he has given or accept the gifts he has given!
I know I know I know he does not take our salvation and we cant lose it on accident, but we most certainly can choose to quit serving him, quit walking in faith! we can choose not to recieve the gifts ! good grief! so nobody can say "oh elisha God dont take stuff away from you"
I say to you all I KNOW THAT and THATS NOT WHAT I MEANT!!!
ALSO To MY BROTHER JAMES WHO I LOVE!!!
I will say dear heart it is also completly crzy for you to insist there are not healings anymore when I habe told you repeatedly that I had hepitits C.. if you dont know anything about this virus I suggest you look it up! It is not something that just goes away as far as types of viruses you could compare it to HIV a it is blood born and ther is NO CURE and it DOESNT GO AWAY it may not always kill everyone that has it the degrees of illness vary but IT DOES NOT JUST GO AWAY
BUT MINE DID!!!
so once again crazyness to truy to convince me that healings have ceased also kinda crazy when I am telling you several times unless you think I am just making this up that you would still believe that part of your doctrine as I am a walking talking miracle my health alone is a miracle and the Dr looked me in the eye said I hod no virus and none has been found since then! and before that they said my liver looked (he looked at it during surgery to remove my gal bladder) over 80 years old I was in my 20s so I was a very sick girl and I have a healthy liver now and blood free from, hepitits C
Also I told everyone I myself turned my back on God the bible says its possible to have tasted heavenly things and I did it also says you can be enlightend and then turn away I was and I did! So again you cant convince me something that happend to me did not happen thats crazyness
so whatever you have interpreted these scriptures you all are using for proof mean is wrong! You have interpreted it wrong if you think yopu cant turn away from God and inncidently lose salvation or give it away you definatly interpreted it wrong if you think devine healing has passed away that one makes me laugh cause maybe yall could convince my flesh I was wrong and maybe you could make an argument that U was never really saved the first time and that argument (allthough I know I was saved) would hold water!
But I have documented scientific proof that I was healed from HepC and I will not let satans lies that he has convinced others of take that away from me as thats what he tried to do is steal from us! Dont yall see that when you spout off things like that its satan using you to try and convince someone like me iof the same lies you have bought?
James please cant you at least admit its possible that your wrong about that one thing? I know you wont admit it cause if you do then you have to admit it is possible your entire belief system is wrong! So I understand yet I worry that your pride is keeping you from the truth!
Your too proud to admit you may be wrong and that your doctrine is just a tad off!
But you cant deny that I was healed from a virus that people arent helaed from not even with treatment! all treatments do at best is keep the virus at bay! I NEVER HAD TREATMENT OF ANYKIND JAMES NOTHING BUT PRAYER AND HANDS LAID ON ME!! so how do you explain that?
I want to say that when you love someone it hurts to know they are decieved I get no joy out of knowing that Iam right and someone else is wrong!
I am speaking about James casue the others arent that big a deal as far as thinking you can and cant give up salvation is not detrimental to making heaven..
and I dont thnk James is unsaved at all , but I think James my brother that you have bought a lie and now you think your commited to it and you cant change your mind cause of pride either that or satan has huge blinders on you ! I am telling you plainly a good reason why you are dead wrong! But knowing your wrong about this does not bring me joy rather it hurts me deep down to the point of tears! Please at least admit just to your self its possible that your wrong about that part of it (for now) and open your mind up to the possibilty that the truth is something else
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 08:31 AM
Elisha said:
I will say dear heart it is also completly crzy for you to insist there are not healings anymore when I habe told you repeatedly that I had hepitits C.. if you dont know anything about this virus I suggest you look it up! It is not something that just goes away as far as types of viruses you could compare it to HIV a it is blood born and ther is NO CURE and it DOESNT GO AWAY it may not always kill everyone that has it the degrees of illness vary but IT DOES NOT JUST GO AWAY
BUT MINE DID!!!
James replies:
I never said that "God does not heal anymore".
Check my posts. The Apostles could do this AT WILL.
God heals, but WE CANNOT. Same thing with what is called speaking in tongues.
Christians who believe they speak in tongues, REALLY believe they can do it WHENEVER THEY WANT.
Which is usually Sunday Morning at church at the exact time they chose to.
There is a HUGE difference in believing that God heals people whenever He decides to and YOU HAVING THE ABILITY TO DO IT WHENEVER AND WHEREVER YOU DECIDE.
Elisha said:
so once again crazyness to truy to convince me that healings have ceased also kinda crazy when I am telling you several times unless you think I am just making this up that you would still believe that part of your doctrine as I am a walking talking miracle my health alone is a miracle and the Dr looked me in the eye said I hod no virus and none has been found since then! and before that they said my liver looked (he looked at it during surgery to remove my gal bladder) over 80 years old I was in my 20s so I was a very sick girl and I have a healthy liver now and blood free from, hepitits C
James replies:
Amen to that!
Elisha said:
Also I told everyone I myself turned my back on God the bible says its possible to have tasted heavenly things and I did it also says you can be enlightend and then turn away I was and I did! So again you cant convince me something that happend to me did not happen thats crazyness
James replies:
The "tasted heavenly things" probably refers to unbelievers in the church that had taken the Lord's Supper.
It does NOT say they were born again.
Look everyone knows the verses in Hebrews that are used to say that a true Christian can lose their salvation.
The problem is I don't have ANY respect for you quoting Hebrews over and over when you REFUSE TO DEAL WITH THE SCRIPTURES THAT PLAINLY SAY A TRUE CHRISTIAN CANNOT LOSE THEIR SALVATION.
No respect! got that? You hang an ENTIRE DOCTRINE on two vague verses that have more than one possible interpretation, and then IGNORE TWENTY FIVE PLAIN VERSES.
WHY DO YOU DO THIS?
Because doctrines are hooked together, and you know that if you change that one, you will have to change a few more.
God it the one who saves, and HE decides.
Elisha said:
so whatever you have interpreted these scriptures you all are using for proof mean is wrong! You have interpreted it wrong if you think yopu cant turn away from God and inncidently lose salvation or give it away
James replies:
Jesus SAID He would "NOT LOSE ONE" of the sheep the Father had given Him, and YOU.......
Contradict Jesus and say, "well, sorry Jesus, you ARE going to lose more than one, because some Christians will just walk away after they are born again."
you definatly interpreted it wrong if you think devine healing has passed away that one makes me laugh cause maybe yall could convince my flesh I was wrong and maybe you could make an argument that U was never really saved the first time and that argument (allthough I know I was saved) would hold water!
But I have documented scientific proof that I was healed from HepC and I will not let satans lies that he has convinced others of take that away from me as thats what he tried to do is steal from us! Dont yall see that when you spout off things like that its satan using you to try and convince someone like me iof the same lies you have bought?
James please cant you at least admit its possible that your wrong about that one thing? I know you wont admit it cause if you do then you have to admit it is possible your entire belief system is wrong! So I understand yet I worry that your pride is keeping you from the truth!
Your too proud to admit you may be wrong and that your doctrine is just a tad off!
But you cant deny that I was healed from a virus that people arent helaed from not even with treatment! all treatments do at best is keep the virus at bay! I NEVER HAD TREATMENT OF ANYKIND JAMES NOTHING BUT PRAYER AND HANDS LAID ON ME!! so how do you explain that?
James replies:
God heals, and there is no such thing as a Christian having the power to heal at will. The Apostles had this, but WE DON'T.
I want to say that when you love someone it hurts to know they are decieved I get no joy out of knowing that Iam right and someone else is wrong!
I am speaking about James casue the others arent that big a deal as far as thinking you can and cant give up salvation is not detrimental to making heaven..
and I dont thnk James is unsaved at all , but I think James my brother that you have bought a lie and now you think your commited to it and you cant change your mind cause of pride either that or satan has huge blinders on you !
James replies:
Either that or you just have been a member of church that has sub-biblical theology, and you have believed things for a long time that are just not true. And you have never even HEARD the word Arminian until you came on this group, and you never even THOUGHT about ALL the Christians who lived before you, and what they believed.
Elisha continues:
I am telling you plainly a good reason why you are dead wrong! But knowing your wrong about this does not bring me joy rather it hurts me deep down to the point of tears! Please at least admit just to your self its possible that your wrong about that part of it (for now) and open your mind up to the possibilty that the truth is something else
James replies:
NO ONE has a perfect theology. That certainly includes me.
However, I Do believe that Reformed theology is the MOST accurate that exists.
I also believe that modern American Christianity is a mile wide and an inch deep.
The average Puritan ten year old in Early America, knew MORE about the Bible than the average Christian adult today.
Modern America Christianity is mostly hyper-sentimental, with God resembling Santa Claus, and Arminian. And like Most modern America Christians, they have never even heard the word "Arminian", even though that is what they are taught from the pulpit. Modern American Christians would be stunned to find out what their own brothers and sisters in Christ believed a mere two hundred years ago in their own country. They are totally out of touch with, and ignorant of Christians who lived before them.
Michael Crichton said that "If you don't know history, you don't know anything, you are like a leaf that doesn't realize it is part of a tree."
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 09:31 AM
Yeah I agree with you James I thought you were meaning that people are not heald divinly anymore!
I think thouigh that the reason that the apostles could do it at will was they had a whole lot more faith than we do!
As there are men who can lay hands on people and healthem and the stronger the faith the more people get healed however it is alwasy God who heals who even the apostles alwasy gave him the Glory!
as far as armainians and calvinists! i wish I never had heard the words I would rather have been ignorant to it than to see the division it brings!
I myself think I am neither one! I just explained what I think on Donnas thread but I will tell you here I am not an armainien becasue I certainly dont htink at all that man can turn to God within himself !I do think however that whether or not we were chosen and thats why we accept God or God knew we would accept him and therefor he put our names down is just a stupid thing to let dicide us as its a mute point!
Jesus gied and while he was on this earth and even before that he knew who would reject him and they dont matter in the plan of salvation, they dont even come into the equation so whether or not he died for them too doesnt even matter becasue they dont come into the equation at all! As I like to believe that Jesus would give them salvation if the did repent but the fact is they wont and he knows the wont so it dont matter anyway! On top of that (I have been thinking a lot about this james) Jesus died thousands of years after the foundations of the earth so he knew who we were then! So I guess no not really he didnt die for everyone casue what would be the point in him dieing for thoe who will reject him anything other than that is just hypothetical, hypotheticly speaking if someone who Jesus thouight would reject him surprised him and actuly repented I think he would grant them salvation however that would never happen so whats it matter! I am neother calvinit or armainian I am Elisha and I dont believe in what people tel me I believe in what I believe in from what I have read myself ! Now as far as what I just mentioned who exactly He died for I had never even thought about that before I came on this forum soI had to think about it!
The truth is my dear bronther that we see through a glass thats cloudy and dark we cant explain all these things al we can do is do the best we can to understand and know that God is true and every man a lie!
I dont think that God went through the list of every man that would live and said enie meenie miney moe, what I di think is he knew what we would end up doing he knows the begining from the end and fromthat knowlege he made us the elect thats hat makes sence to me!
Do we have the power to reject him?/ Yes I think we do however he already knew who would do that and thats the basis on which some becasem the elect!
Than you my dear for clearing u what you thought about divine healing as I was really really really worried about you!:applause: I am glad you see it that way as I kinda see it that way too! I dont think MEN can heal anyone but I do think God can and does andI do believe in laying hands on folks when you pray and I do think that God heals people when youi pray with faith!
I tel lyou what happend not to long ago ther is a youn girk 20 yearsold with a very bad kind of overian cancer she was on deaths door she couldnt take her cancer treatments cause her orgeans were failing and her stomach preferated 2 or 3 times and her blood stream becasem toxic becasue of the contnets in her intestines were leaking into her blood!!
Anyway I called up my uncle who sings in a gospel group they are very very good and I orginized a benifit for her one reason was she has no insurabce the BIGGEST REASON was I wanted people to get to tgether and pray for her in one mind al at one time specificaly for this girl and her family! We raised a little money not much about 700 dollars but we prayed and prayed and prayed then we amointed a prayer cloth with oil and prayed over it for her healing a day or 2 later it was hand deliverd to her with the money wellto her father in mobil which is a pretty good distance from where we are ,
anyway this little girl was in ICU she had a hole in her throat and a breathing machine hooked up to that but within a matter of days about 2 or 3 days we had gotten word that not only had they taken her breayjing tube out but they had taken her out of icu she had been in ICU since may this was spetember they tood her out of icu and put hewr in a regualr room I recently heard that she has been able to go out side and sit for a while after not seeing the sunshine since may! I also heard her cancer is now gone and they are just still getting her well from the infectiopn and damage to her organs
WOW!!! God is so good, he does answr prayers and I dont know why he works the way he does but he waited till that prayer cloth was deliverd to her to start healing her body!
I know of story after story when that sort of thing happens!
So I dont just believe willy nilly bacause its what someone told me i shouild believe I have good solid reasons for believing the things i believe I was myself prayed for and had hands laid on me and oil pourd on my head! So I do believe God healed me through prayer and the laying on of hands cause thats what happend they layed hands on me then I was better! Same thing with ayla she was knoking on deaths door now she has a barrel full of hope!
Like I said I dont want to be called calvin or armainian as I believe in elements of both and ther are some things ion both I dont believe , I had to really seek God about whether Jesus died for everyone and thast the answer I feel like i got from Him! and James I have said befoerI know i am not as smart as you are I dont dispute you r knowlege of the church history but I dont really think all though its nice to know what they believed believing and living as if what htye believed is right just becasue thats church history is dangeous and its the traditions of man! We are not locked into what anyone else believes I have the option of reading the bible for myself and figurng out what I believe based on what it says and the leadership of the Holy Spirit!
PS I dont think I can speak in tounges whenever I want to! If I wanted to right now I couldnt utter anything that was not my flesh!
The scripture s are clear that you speak as the spirit gives utterence not when you just decide you want to!
I have been just driving down the road before abd suddenly for no reason I couldnt stop the words from coming into my head I was on my lunch break whch is one hour long I ususaly go to the gym but i went home and prayed instead I couldnt stop the language from coming into my head so I spoke the words and I prayed and prayed! I still dont know what happend or what I was oraying for I will probably never know but I do know that was the spirit making intersession for me cause I didnt know what I needed to pray for or even that I should have been praying I know to someone who doesnt have that in their life it sounds hokey and crazy but it was very real and after I prayed I could feel something shift it was very powerful! and it hasnt happend like that again! But I did not conjur up words to speak that were nonsence and I think if people just speak whatever whenever and think they have the power to decide when they are in theri flesh or decived my satanic spirit! Not to say you cant refuse to speak the words when they come but you cant just open your mouth and speak whenever you want to, the spirit MUST give utterence
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 10:11 AM
Sis Ella that passage maybe thats not what it means, wowever thats not the only passage nor the only inferance! God said twice in the scriptures that he would blot a mans name out of his book! in order to get into the book you must be saved and the inplication is that when your blotted out you rnot saved! Now some will argue this is take out of context however it is exactly in the context that infers that one will have their name blotted out for turning against God!
The children saw great miracles and God deliverd them! Then they made a golden calf to worship! anyway so it was possible for them to turn against him after he had delverd them! This is a typology! But there are some also who will say htta this is an old testoment scripture and does not aplly however God said the exact same thing in revealtion! He said whoeevers name isnt blotted out! He also said somewhere something about peples names who are not in the book! So the argument that every mans name was once in the book and he blotted out the ones that would not have salvation also does not hold water as that scripture infers that some people dont have their name in the book at all!
The only way to explain these scriptures is that their are people who will never be saved and there are some who wil have their names written in the book ut that he blots out at some point for some reason! My asumption and what the scripture in exodus infers is that they are blotted out when they turned agains God and made themselfs another god!
Israel is always a typology of the church! If they can do it we can do it!
If they can backslide so can we if they can be dliverd then make idols and turn away so we can we!
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 12:06 PM
Elisha, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you understand that oyu are sepaking on two differne things.
A backslider who returns back to their sins, because he/she fails to allow the Holy Spiirt to complete the regeneration process to conversion, has not forsaken Jesus Christ altogether.
Jesus say men love the darkness of their sins, so they return to them if they have not been totally converted and surrendered thier life to Christ. The message in Hebrews chapter 6:4 is a twofold message speaking about the IMPOSSIBILITY of such ever happening to a truly born again believer, and the comsequences of what will happen if this WERE POSIBLE IT SHOULD HAPPEN... BUT IT IS IMPOSSBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE for a born agian believer to forsake the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
This is not same as a person who has backsliden abck into his/her sins, and then returned back to Chirst... The person may have forsaken the ways and principles of Christ, but not Chirst Himself... But we are told that aperson who DOES NOT REPENT OF THEIR SINS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
Question: when you went back into the world after saying that you gave your heart to the Lord... Did God receive you back? And when you did it again, did He receive you back again? And now that you have totally surrendered, do you think that you ahve lost your salvation form the first time you left the teahcings of the Lord's Word? The fact is, YOU HAD NEVER REALLY RECEIVED THE SEED OF THE WORD IN YOUR HEART THE FIRST TIME, THEREFORE, you returned BACK to what you had in your heart, SIN...
But now you have the Word, and the indwelling of the PRESENCE OF THE Holy Spirit,a nd you DARE NOT RETURN BACK INTO A WOLRD OF SIN like before, becsue you are now TURLY SAVED AND BORN AGAIN, THEREFORE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT YOU SHOULD TURN AWAY FROM THE TRUITH OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST TO HEARIGN ANOTHER GOSPEL... Denying the truht of God's Word about His Son.
This is God's call to the BACKSLIDER in Chroincles 7:14 if my people, who are CALLED BY MY NAME, will HUMBLE themselves and PRAY and SEEK MY FACE and turn from their wicked ways ( Ask for forgiveness and repent of their sins), then I will HEAR from heaven, and I will FORGIVE their SIN and will HEAL their land. (This mean the whole person spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and physically. This is also for the land a person lives in).
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 12:15 PM
If a person who CLAIMS TO BE BORN AGAIN, and still comtinues in thier sins, they CLAIM GOD DELIVERED THEM FROM, and if the person DOES NOT COME BEFORE GOD IN TOTAL REPENTS OF THOSE SINS AND TRUN AWAY FROM THEM, we are atught this person will LOSE WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD... and this is where many so-called born agian believers are today. They claim SALVATION and that they are SAFE and SAVED, but they ARE NOT AND HAVE NOT TURLY BEEN BORN AGAIN FROM ABIVE THORUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (REGENERATED/ CONVERTED)... and if there is NO REPENTANCE THEY WILL DIED IN THIER SIN AND WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD... that's Bible!:glow:
this is 2 sperate posts ..one is just about some crazyness the other is mostly for my wonderful dear brother James who I love
Posted : 27 Dec, 2011 12:25 PM
Ella, I dont know I am not as smart as yall are so all understnding that I have is by Gods grace alone!
What i know is this whether or not I was saved the first time, I had done what was required to be saved I had repented and accepted the lord jesus I walked in light and lived a life of hollieness! I abstained from sin and prayed daily and went to church!
But the drugs had a hold on my flesh! I had been deliverd but my flesh likes to be high it still does if Iwas to leave it up to my flesh I would be getting high today!
I know if I had died in the state of repentene I had at first Iwould have made heaven
I also know if I had died during the time thatr I had turned my back on Him I would have busted open the gates of hell!
I know now that I am saved and wouild make heaven if I died right now!
Now that being said I also think that God has the ultimate say so in all things!
I believe with everything in me that God can an dwill spare someones lifeif he knows theywill turn back to him in the future I also believe that he will go ahead and takesomeone that he knows might turn away from him in the future he knows whatrs gonna happen and all the posibilities! I think he will be merciful just likeleting methesula live to be 969 i norder to put off the flood, he will let people live long enough to accept him again and turn back to him, I also think that he will take someone home if he knows in the futre that if he sis not they would turn away!
So God knew I would trun back to him, so ultimatly I didnt really loose my slavation as God allowed me to live until such a time as I turned back towards him and vise versa, people who were saved or had repented and lived for the Lord for a time yet turned away from him and He knew they would never ever turn back to him, well they really never had salvation in the first place becasue ultimatly they will not make heaven their home! So its all in how you lok at it, You can say well IF that person had died while they were in repentence and living ofr the Lord they would have made heaven however they did not die in theor saved state so they did not endure til lthe end so they wont be saved so they dont have salvation!
The reality is if someone lives their whole entire life for the Lord and is truly repented then before they die they turn from him die and go to hell well God knew they were gonna do that all along so they were never really saved all though if they had died while thet were in that stae of repentence and loving the lord had it been genuine thye would have been saved but they did not and God knew they wouldnt so its jus a great bif IF that dont really matter!
same thing with me! I was saved had I died then I would have made it, but I turned my back and had i died then I wouldnt have made it!! BUT I DIDNT DIE AND JESUS DIDNT COME BACK so I never really lost my salvation as God knows the end fromn the begining!
So like the other things I said about Jesus dieing for everyone or just for those who accept him.. It doesnt matter cause they didnt it all comes back to the fact the God knows whats going on and whe I say I lost my slavation what I mean is had i died righ thtne I would have went to hell whee as had I died before that I would have went to heaven!
but all of that is hypothetucal becasue God already knows what one will or will not do
