I posted this here Elisha so maybe you will be accountable, and know I am not going to agree with when you disagree with the word of God.
Question is man flesh?
PJ , man is most definatly born a sinner, what in the world are you talking about? the flesh is sinful if we do nothing we naturaly sin we must make deceisions not to sin, I have been in a full gospel church all of my life and I have never heard anyone even hint around that we were not born into being a sinner if in fact we were not born sinful then there would be a slim possibility that we could keep the law and nobody can kep the law PJ, I think you make stuff up as you go that sounds like you had some kind of revalation and God told you something we dont know,
You know who else that happend to don toyu?
Joseph smith!!
Just kidding but for real PJ what you are saying is border line on something I am not willing to say about you but its bad, we are born sinners!
Why dont you please please speak clearly and stop talking in riddels its confusing and I dont understand what your points are which is starting to make me a little suspsiouse!
By the way when you start pointing fingers calling me carnal that is implying that you are more spiritual than I am and that is sin too my brother you are not to be comparing anyone to your self you are only to compare yourself to Jesus then maybe you can put into prespective your own nature, I wouldnt call you carnal PJ whether I thought I was more spiritual than you or not! My unbelief is not sin because you have yet to give me the word of God to support what you are trying to claim and also I said I believe the Lord prospers his children all I ever said is if a mans heart is wrong and he is giving for the wrong reasons just for self gain he is sinning and that is not the gospel.
Sometimes I wonder if you afre reading what I am saying PJ cause you keep saying and acusing me of the exact opposit of what I have said and implied
No, not once maybe it is not saying what you mean, or knowing what the word of God teaches.
The bible does not teach man is born into sin, that is the traditions of men.
Man is a spirit and the spirit of man that came from heaven surely did not come with sin, the father does not have any sin.
If you will study you will the Jewish understood the age of accountability, Paul talked about this But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Romans 10:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Romans 10:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Unbelief is simply unbelief any of us can be ignorant to the will of God on any matter, but when we hear the word of God and then reject the unbelief will become sin.
The word of God is always the truth.
The Body of Christ is to walk in the newness of life, In Christ as unto his directions in all things
We should live acknowledging him in all that we do, as he was our example for he did not do anything he did not hear his father say or see his father do.
Anything we do under his direction is under the law of increase, he always multiplies our seed sown, but as his church we are to release our faith in our action's and without faith our action's are vain.
The topic was rightly named "Religion Will Often Attack The Truth" which is precisely what you did, religious man.
You are attacking the truth. And what is worse now is that you are picking on a sister because she disagrees with you.
Sad little Phorum Pharisee.
This is what happens when your phylacteries are to broad. They are blinding your eyes so that you can't see beyond that little narrow minded word that is on your forehead and don't notice that you are stumbling over those fringes that are too long on your garments.
How does it feel to sit on Moses' seat, brother? You feeling worthy to condemn and judge on it. Just remember that the same way Jesus condemned and called them hypocrites because they, much like you, want people to swear by the gold in the temple and not by THE Temple that was restored (Christ) and trying to make a follower follow your traditions instead of the Word of God by lording things over them. And this topic is perfect evidence of your hypocrisy.
But make no mistake, brother. Just because you made this topic shows that your rear end is a little singed when sitting on that Moses' seat of yours. God still prevails and justified this sister of yours by showing her your actions and thus revealing your heart.
I am ashamed of your behavior, brother, and so should you be. I've seen you try this tactic with me and a few others here but to do this to a sister who was defending you because of a small thing that she doesn't agree with is not worthy of the Christ that you preach and less honorable to a man your age.
I suggest you apologize first to Christ and then to your sister, bother.
These forms of topics not only "divide" the truth but also "divide" the brethren.
I will praying for you more fervently from now on brother.
May the Lord Jesus Christ show you the true riches of His wealth and satisfaction in the gospel of His coming and dying for you on the cross to restore you to our Father's good graces, brother.
By the mouth of two or more the law shall be established.
Just because I deny the spirit you preach does not in any way mean that I deny the Holy Spirit which was given to me as a seal to make me His own, brother. Make no mistake about that.
But I do deny this pharisitical (which is close to being a parasitical) spirit of self righteousness and authoritative spirit that is being displayed towards others that don't agree with you by trying to disguise the true intent of your heart in this topic. If it was so important to you to get a response, then why not go to another brother or sister in PRIVATE to ask for advice before doing this in a public fashion, brother? After all, we are all reading the same Word of God are we not? Why not display the marks of the Word instead of the marks of the flesh?
Again, you brought this upon yourself and should have expected no less by the way that you acted towards others.
You reap what you have sown. So don't be upset at the harvest if you do not like the fruit because it was your field that it came from.
By the mouth of two or more the law shall be established.
Just because I deny the spirit you preach does not in any way mean that I deny the Holy Spirit which was given to me as a seal to make me His own, brother. Make no mistake about that.
But I do deny this pharisitical (which is close to being a parasitical) spirit of self righteousness and authoritative spirit that is being displayed towards others that don't agree with you by trying to disguise the true intent of your heart in this topic. If it was so important to you to get a response, then why not go to another brother or sister in PRIVATE to ask for advice before doing this in a public fashion, brother? After all, we are all reading the same Word of God are we not? Why not display the marks of the Word instead of the marks of the flesh?
Again, you brought this upon yourself and should have expected no less by the way that you acted towards others.
You reap what you have sown. So don't be upset at the harvest if you do not like the fruit because it was your field that it came from.
This is not two witnesses that are in agreement with scripture, nor do they try to walk in truth, one has to first submit to the word of God and be subject to the word, to be able to walk in it.
I do not receive the comment made out of unrighteousness, nor do I have any problem with Correction. darkness does not correct light.
Btw the way I do not see Elisha as one in your category.
PJ posted TO ELISHA ON A CONVERSATION ALREADY ON THE SUBJECT: The bible does not teach man is born into sin, that is the traditions of men.
Agapeton posted:
Does the Bible really not teach that we are not born in sin?
Psalm 51: 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Since Adam and Eve's act of disobedience we have all been born with a sin nature. We all have a tendency to do what is not good in God's eyes and run from all that is good. That is why the scriptures say that there is not one that is good. For we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
By the way, Islam believes that man was not born in sin.
Just thought that I'd pass that on.
PJ posted to Agapeton : I am well aware of that verse and no it does say what you say.
Agapeton posted to PJ: Ever wonder why the Messiah had to be born of a virgin?
PJ now says that i started it.....
Once again, "Religion Will Often Attack The Truth" .
Any one that has been on this site any length of time knows there are particular scriptures that are brought out all the time by the same group of people to justify their own belief.
The posting of Ps 51:5 is one of those scriptures, and the practice of men twisting the word of God to justify their position or stance, is an example of what the bible teaches as the tradition's of men. In this instance will put it in the religious category.
Here is another one of Those passages that is often twisted, which by the way disagrees with what some want to use that ps 51:5 for.
Some actually refer to this chapter as Paul speaking of himself as a Christian, btw the way it has an answer in it to the lie of men born into sin.
That lie also charges the lord with putting sin into man's body, that is a wild one.
� Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 � What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 � For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
1 � There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
I am constantly amazed how you refuse to expound on Scripture that you disagree with yet still have followers that drink your kool-aid.
Please tell us all what this passage means and then maybe we'll have a clue to what you're rambling about:
Psalm 51: 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Please, please don't respond with "the tradions of men" nonsense or you have to have ears to hear out of context statements you always say.
Just explain what the text of Scripture says so everyone can understand why you support what you're saying. Its really not hard if you're being honest and forthright.
If you refuse to expound on such a simple statement of God's holy Word, you leave us all with no sober choice but to doubt everything that flows out of your mouth.
