Author	Thread: Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives)
Admin	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 09:18 AM I understand this will be a touchy subject for some. I do not believe that the scriptures teach mutual submission in marriage. I feel that often times Eph. 5:21 is interpreted wrongly in order to be "fair" and people completely miss the point of the verse. I'm providing a short video on the subject as well as part of an article to show why I believe this to be the case. Why do I believe this to be an issue? Well for one we should always attempt to be accurate in our interpretation in scripture. Two, I believe a wrong interpretation of mutual submission can cause issues on marriage. I believe it opens the door to a woman saying she will not submit to the headship of her husband because the bible claims he has to submit to and until he submits, she will not submit. I've heard of women who believe that. Then it becomes a power struggle in the home. The problem is, submission is a command from God, not of the husband. Anyway, on to the video and article... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVRWEm3tug "One of the principal arguments of Egalitarians is that whatever submission exists in a marriage relationship is to be mutual, not only wives to husbands but also, and equally, husbands to wives. This interpretation is based on a certain reading of Ephesians 5:20ff. �giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.� There are several reasons why I find this interpretation inadequate. 1. The context of Eph. 5 specifies the kind of submission Paul had in mind: wives to husbands (5:22-23), children to their parents (6:1-3), bondservants to their masters (6:5-8). These relationships are never reversed. Ephesians 5:24 makes clear that the kind of submission wives are to exercise is like the submission of the church to Christ. The latter is not mutual submission. The church is submissive to Christ�s authority in a way that Christ cannot and never will be submissive to us. 2. We should also be aware of the absence of any command that husbands be submissive to their wives. While wives are often told to submit to their husbands (Eph. 5:22-24; Col. 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pt. 3:1-6), the situation is never reversed. If mutual submission were so essential to Paul�s or Peter�s or John�s view of the marital relationship, it is stunning that neither they nor any other biblical author explicitly or directly instructs husbands to submit to their wives 3. The word �submit� or �be subject to� (hypotasso) is always used for submission to an authority. e.g., Luke 2:51; 10:17; Rom. 13:1,5; 1 Cor. 15:27-28; 1 Pt. 3:22; 5:5; Eph. 5:24; Titus 2:9; 1 Pt. 2:18; Heb. 12:9; James 4:7. The submission is always one-directional. 4. No one has produced an example in ancient Greek literature where hypotasso (�submit�) is applied to a relationship between persons and it does not bear the sense of �be subject / submissive to� an authority. 5. The word translated �one another� (allelous) in Eph. 5:21 need not mean �everyone to everyone� but often means �some to others�. See, e.g., Rev. 6:4; Gal. 6:2; 1 Cor. 11:33; Matt. 24:10; Luke 2:15; 12:1; 24:32). In this case it would be wives to husbands, as Eph. 5:22 makes explicitly clear. 6. In other texts where wives are exhorted to be submissive to their husbands, nothing is said about submitting to one another. See Col. 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1. 7. Even if Paul meant complete reciprocity (wives to husbands and husbands to wives), this doesn�t mean husbands and wives submit to each other in the same way. Their �mutual submission� would be expressed in ways consistent with their distinctive roles and without compromising the headship of the husband. After reading this material I encourage both men and women, but especially the men, to go back to lessons three and four on headship and submission and carefully read them once again. It is all too easy, given our depraved proclivity for self-aggrandizement, to use the truths in the current lesson as a way of rationalizing a dictatorial and unkind and insensitive way of relating to our wives." http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-ministry-does-ephesians-5-teach-mutual-submission/ Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 09:21 AM For clarification, I did not mean this to be an attack on women or to say that THIS is the major problem in marriages. I just think it's an issue that needs to be addressed from scripture. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 09:27 AM If anyone has an interpretation of scripture that person is wrong, man is to be totally dependent upon to the lord for all things including the revelation of his word. If men where loving wives as Christ loved the church he would not be asking her to submit to him. The scripture is clear the submission is on both parts, but I believe is grossly misrepresented. Love never Demands... Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 10:01 AM Stick to the topic please. I doubt you read or listened because there was no mention of anyone demanding anything. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 10:23 AM You just did, and that is not a christian response 0n your part and yes it is demanding. My answer was totally directed to the topic. One other note when you speak of the term of submission this teaching is in the context of those that where in the early church and where of those that where full of the Holy Ghost, those that are full of the Holy Ghost are not hardened to the biblical teaching of submission. Maybe submission is not as you think. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 � Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. The word of God is of no private interpretation. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 10:26 AM PJ, I do not wish to argue with you. If you continue to misrepresent me then I will have to ask you not to post in my threads. I made it clear that this is not a command that men give to their wives. They do not demand anything. However it is a command from God. The bible says "wives submit YOURSELVES". It does not say "husbands DEMAND your wives". I do not know where you are getting this. If you had watched the video and read the article then you would know that is not the teaching I'm promoting. So either please be honest or do not post in my threads. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 10:43 AM Is not the video of Calvinist origin. As far as you asking me not to reply on your post, well I would to ask you not to post based on your statement. The post should be in agreement with the word of God. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 10:46 AM Don't make this thread about Calvinism. It isn't relevant. You don't have to like the post. However if you are going to reply, please do not purposely misrepresent the OP. It doesn't reflect well on you. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 11:00 AM My response is in total agreement with scripture. As far as Calvinist views that is important to those who walk in the light of the word of God, Calvinism is not in agreement with scripture, we are opposing those that have submitted to it, but denying the doctrine as the word of God instructs believers to. Post Reply
View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 11:02 AM Alrighty...I think it's time we move back to the original discussion. Not sure why you want to discuss it but if you want to discuss Calvinism, you may make another thread :) Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	Mutual Submission(Husbands and Wives) Posted : 7 Mar, 2012 11:55 AM Amen HOH, Excellent word. May women submit as we are called to in God's Holy word. pj you are the most contentious prideful man i have ever met on this forum. There is no good fruit in you. Post Reply

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