Author	Thread: The U in T.U.L.I.P.
KindHeartedWoman8 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 08:31 PM U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION (Calvinism teaches that God selects those who are to be saved without any condition, but the Bible teaches that there is one condition to salvation: faith.): 1 Peter 1:2: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..." 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth." Luke 7:50: "... Thy faith hath saved thee ..." Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Post Reply
View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 08:50 PM Calvinism doesn't teach that people are saved apart from faith. Again, Roger Olson is not a great resource here. Post Reply
KindHeartedWoman8 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 08:51 PM Holding- its the Bible not some book from Olson. Post Reply
View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 08:54 PM I grant that the verses you've given are from the bible. I'm speaking of your argument. Post Reply
View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 11:25 PM Hmm now scripture is an argument... All scripture is a revelation of the love of God to man among many other revelation's To continually make such statement is clearly to say the word of God is not truth, not to mention it is void of faith. Every word of God: Is Truth, without falsehood Is of no man's private interpretation Is full of faith Is full of illumination Is incorruptible Seed Is Spirit Is Life, the God kind of life. Post Reply
View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 11:52 PM Fail PJ...never said scripture wasn't an argument... Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 9 Jun, 2012 03:25 AM God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation. (Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48) : Romans 9:10-21 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (11) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Ephesians 1:4-11 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; (9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Post Reply
KindHeartedWoman8 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 9 Jun, 2012 12:41 PM D- Who is Paul speaking to in Ephesians chapter 1 and 2? The Jews? in Chapter 3 to the Gentiles He is talking to both groups getting along together. This was a new community composed of both. 3This is the reason that I Paul am a prisoner for* Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles� 2for surely you have already heard of the commission of God�s grace that was given to me for you, 3and how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I wrote above in a few words, 4a reading of which will enable you to perceive my understanding of the mystery of Christ. 5In former generations this mystery* was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: 6that is, the Gentiles have become fellow-heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 7 Of this gospel I have become a servant according to the gift of God�s grace that was given to me by the working of his power. 8Although I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given to me to bring to the Gentiles the news of the boundless riches of Christ, 9and to make everyone see* what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in* God who created all things; 10so that through the church the wisdom of God in its rich variety might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose that he has carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have access to God in boldness and confidence through faith in him.* 13I pray therefore that you* may not lose heart over my sufferings for you; they are your glory. 14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,* 15from whom every family* in heaven and on earth takes its name. 16I pray that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant that you may be strengthened in your inner being with power through his Spirit, 17and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love. 18I pray that you may have the power to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. We have to look at the context He is trying to bring down the barriers between the Jews and Gentiles, start new churches to spread the word of the Gospel. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 9 Jun, 2012 01:59 PM I do not understand what you are trying to say K, what does Paul starting new churches have to do with God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will? Post Reply
KindHeartedWoman8 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 9 Jun, 2012 04:31 PM Why would God call upon people to spread the word? If God already picked who was going to be saved any bod who was damed to hell...bother starting churches to spread the word????? So if everyone was picked before the beginning of time then no point in spreading the word about Christ...that is what you believe???? You said you are Calvinists.not me!! Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The U in T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 9 Jun, 2012 04:56 PM ok so that makes no sense at all. So i am not to evangelize according to you because i am a Calvinist. No where in the bible does it say i am not to evangelize because of my beliefs. I am to go every where to spread the good news that Christ came to save sinners. http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/Salvation/evan_sov.html maybe this will help you. Post Reply

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