Author Thread: Back To Romans 11: 25-26 and the Tired Argument
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Back To Romans 11: 25-26 and the Tired Argument
Posted : 16 Jul, 2012 04:05 PM

In the last few days I posted two threads on a Christian forum which is not part of a dating service. "God's Covenant With the Jews Is Everlasting? His Covenant With Israel is Everlasting" as of about 4:45 Central Standard U.S. Time has been read 720 times and received 137 comments. My other recent post, "The Eyes of the Lord Run To and Fro" at the same point in time has been read only 35 times and received zero comments.



My point in saying the covenant with Israel is everlasting is that Israel is the name given to the Body of Christ. Therefore, since the Body of Christ as a spiritual house (I Peter 2: 5-9) is called Israel, then that Body of Christ going by the name of Israel is everlasting. This is why Paul in Galatians 6: 16 did not just say "...peace be on them, and mercy, and upon Israel." He said "the Israel of God," to show he was not talking about physical Israel as a majority who rejected Christ.



In almost every debate about the identity of Christians as Israel, or as the capital C church, being a Body of Christ alongside the Jews, or all Israel, Romans 11: 25-26 is brought up by followers of John Darby, C.I. Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer as proof that All Israel, or all physical Israel, the Jews, remain a chosen people to God.



There is no resolution of the argument about the identity of All Israel, the Jews, and the identity of all in Christ as Israel reborn in him - because the argument is between those who interpret Romans 11: 25-26 by other scriptures and this includes some Old Testament texts, versus those who interpret Romans 11; 25-26 by Christian Zionist theology.



Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9: 6-8. Galatians 3:16-29, Galatians 4:25-26 and Ephesians 2:11-12 are not the only scriptures which have to be dealt with honestly if one is going to interpret Romans 11:26 as prophecy saying that all physical Israel will be saved sometime in the future from when Paul wrote.



Look at Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3: 9. Both talk about those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews but are not and lie. Revelation 2: 9 says those who say they are Jews but are not and are of the synagogue of Satan blaspheme.



Matthew 8: 11-12 says the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness.



Romans 11: 17, 20 say those of physical Israel who did not believe in Christ were broken off.



Hebrews 10: 9 says "He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."



There is a set of Old Testament texts on God's divorcement of physical Israel, both the northern and southern nations, because of false doctrines, sin and failure to believe God, and on the transformation of physical Israel. Even Amos 9: 8-11, out of which the Christian Zionists extract verse 11 to support their claim this is a prophecy for the end times and not fulfilled at the time of Christ as James in Acts 15: 14-17 explains. Amos 9: 8-10 explains why God was to restore the tabernacle of David which had fallen down. Restoring the tabernacle of David is not a prophecy for the end time saving of All physical Israel. Its a prophecy of a spiritual restoration, which in II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6 turns out to be a transformation from the physical to the spiritual.



God gave Israel a bill of divorce and Judah went and played the harlot too (Jeremiah 3: 8). In Isaiah 50: 1 God gave Israel a bill of divorcement, referred to as "the bill of your mother's divorcement whom I have put away" for iniquities and transgressions.



Isaiah 29: 16 in saying that "...your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay" harks back to II Kings 21: 13, "...I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and i will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down." Isaiah 29: 16 also points to Jeremiah 18: 1-6, the parable of the potter, as God, who made a pot on his wheel he thought was marred and then made a different pot out of the same lump of clay which seemed good to the potter.



In II Kings 21: 13 stretching the plummet is a metaphor for the judgment of God. God judged his people physical Israel and divorced them. But in the parable of the fig tree in the vineyard, God the Father wanted to cut down Israel, the fig tree. But Christ as the dresser of the vineyard said to the Father, "let it alone this year also, till i shall dig about it and dung it. And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, than after that thou shalt cut it down." The dresser of the vineyard as Christ gave physical Israel one last chance. (Luke 13: 6-9). A Remnant (Romans 11: 5) did accept Christ and at the Day of Pentecost that Remnant began the spiritual house of I Peter 2: 5-9. The shadows (Hebrews 10:1, Colossians 2: 17) that under the Old Covenant pointed to Christ as the substance and the light were done away with, so that only the light of Jesus Christ shines.



My post on "the Eyes of the Lord Run To and Fro" is about those who follow God and look for those in whom the light of Christ shines, and is not made dim to many by worship of the shadows.

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shalom716

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Back To Romans 11: 25-26 and the Tired Argument
Posted : 18 Jul, 2012 05:54 AM

Just wondered where that other christian forum is so I can read the comments.



Thanks

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