Thread: Choose, Chosing, Choice ( A Biblical Look)
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Choose, Chosing, Choice ( A Biblical Look)
Posted : 29 Jul, 2012 01:58 PM
John 6:
47.Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
My desire is that the Word of God will speak for itself here.
I merely want to draw attention to a few specific verses.
Where did the bread come down from? Did they CHOOSE to go into Heaven and bring it down to man? How many folks these days are out there "evaluating" religions? Subjecting each religion to their own carnal minds approval. How many times have you heard someone say something like " I tried Jesus once, etc" or "maybe I will check it out and see what happens"
The Gospel is NOT an offer made to a carnally minded man in order for it to be evaluated on the basis of it's perceived merits and then CHOOSE whether he likes it or not....CHOOSE whether he wants to "give Jesus a chance"... CHOOSE whether he want to "open the door of his heart and let Jesus come in" God is not telling us to go around offering "stories about Jesus" or a "free gift" for others acceptance or rejection.
Your personal testimony or ,better yet, your perception of your personal testimony is for all intent and purposes irrelevant to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many people have quit drinking alcohol or using drugs through an AA meeting. Many Muslims have radically changed their lives because it was Allah's will. In fact, many false religions and cults produce some of the most radical life changing experiences in people and yet... none of that has anything to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I've know many people who have been transformed by sitting at a Tony Robbins seminar or reading a book by Zig Ziglar and yet still none of that has anything to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your personal testimony is that you cut your long hair, quit using heroin, burned your rock music and joined the church choir. So what? I can point to millions who have done similar things. That STILL is NOT the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. You may think it's important but who you are and YOUR life story is irrelevant to the Gospel.
The chances are very good that those who believe and teach such things have never met the Man from Galilee. They have never had their hardened hearts made into a heart of flesh. They have never been born again by the Spirit of God.
NOTICE Vs. 60. The things that Jesus was teaching were " a hard saying" - difficult to understand
Why was it hard for them? Anyone?? It was all spoken in "obvious straight forward words"
Why was it hard for them? Was Jesus speaking higher, deeper knowledge than that of the basic language"? If he was then I guess that " Words we learned and used throughout our lives take on entirely different meanings." Do they not?
Why did this offend them? The answer is right there in the text: " there are some of you that believe not." Jesus knew which ones believed and which ones did not.
Why did some believe and others not? The answer is right there in the text as well: " 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. " The belief was given to them from the Father.
Watch what happens! Vs.66 Many of his disciples turned away. These were non believers. They had been "disciples" until that moment. Now they stopped following Jesus. This also was of the Father.
Look at what he asks those who were left? Do you want to turn away also? But Peter answered him - NO. Peter knew and believed who Jesus truly was. But how? Was he just a smart guy? Had he used his own will? Did some other person present it to him and ask him if he wanted to "accept it or not"? - NO - The Father had revealed it to him.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Now watch what Jesus says - Did not I CHOOSE you?
Did I not even CHOOSE which Devil would betray me?
Totally consistent with what I have already shown from John 3 and what I have already shown from Romans 9.
Restated again in John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
This chapter is also about Jesus telling the Jews that He was the long awaited Messiah who would feed them manna, because the Jews who awaited Him also spoke of His doing this throughout their generations within their exegesis of the Scriptures.
Ironically, in their Midrashim they have recorded exegesis from the Scriptures as to what the Messiah would do when He came. So when Jesus saw that the people followed him because they were looking for food, He told them who He was in a way that they would understand it by the Scriptures AND according to their own Jewish Messianic interpretations. That is why they questioned whether He WAS the actual bread from heaven by saying that He was the son of Joseph the carpenter in the earlier verses leading up to His saying that.
Joh 6:24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.
Joh 6:25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
When The Lord Jesus was putting this to the Jews, He was also reminding them of what they knew that God would physically do and say. That is why they could not accept it also.
Here is a tractate from their own Midrashim regarding the Messiah's doing when He came. Note the similarities in what, and how Jesus worded Himself because of it.
"See, I will make it rain for you bread from heaven!" (Exod 16:4). Another interpretation: It is written: "You spread a table before me in front of my enemies" (Ps 23:5). When did Israel say this verse? As they went from Egypt and the people said: "Is God able to spread a table in the wilderness?" (Ps 78:19).. What did the Holy One, blessed be He!, do? He made them recline under clouds of glory, as it says: '"And God made the people recline" (Exod 13:18) And he made them eat manna, as it says: "Who made you eat manna in the wilderness" (Deut 8:16); And the peoples saw Israel reclining and eating and praising the Holy One, blessed be He!, as it says: "You spread a table before me in front of my enemies" (Ps 23:5a). This is the manna."You anoint my head with oil" (Ps 23:5b) This is the quail.
"My cup overflows" (Ps 23:5b) This is the well.
Likewise, in the age to come he will spread a table for them; and they will recline and eat in the garden of Eden. And the star-worshippers shall see their customs and laws, as it says:"See, my servants shall eat and you shall hunger! (Isa 64:13).
Why was it hard for them? Was Jesus speaking higher, deeper knowledge than that of the basic language"? If he was then I guess that " Words we learned and used throughout our lives take on entirely different meanings." Do they not?
Why did this offend them? The answer is right there in the text: " there are some of you that believe not." Jesus knew which ones believed and which ones did not.
Why did some believe and others not? The answer is right there in the text as well: " 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. " The belief was given to them from the Father.
Watch what happens! Vs.66 Many of his disciples turned away. These were non believers. They had been "disciples" until that moment. Now they stopped following Jesus. This also was of the Father.
Look at what he asks those who were left? Do you want to turn away also? But Peter answered him - NO. Peter knew and believed who Jesus truly was. But how? Was he just a smart guy? Had he used his own will? Did some other person present it to him and ask him if he wanted to "accept it or not"? - NO - The Father had revealed it to him.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Now watch what Jesus says - Did not I CHOOSE you?
Did I not even CHOOSE which Devil would betray me?
Totally consistent with what I have already shown from John 3 and what I have already shown from Romans 9.
Restated again in John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
The biggest whole in your theory, is first and foremost your statements are not of faith, or in agreement with the word of God, you obviously favor the opinion's and doctrine of men.
You several times for some reason post the will of God and then act as if man has no say in the matter.
The manipulation of scripture as is done hear first violates faith.
Man express his opinion of the word of God in lieu of believing the word of God.
For instance by manipulating this text as was done, you violated the whole basic teaching of the word of God.
Hearing by the heart
Believing with the heart
Faith coming forth out of the heart as the individual
mixes faith with the word spoken.
Trying to put God in a religious box as to how he does anything.
The key verses of that context are left out and always ignored by those that use this context to manipulate the word of God.
For instance:
No man can exclude any truth:
This truth is exactly what Jesus said in the parable of the sower.
Will in Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father�s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
We will include another setting (Witness)
^6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Eph 2:1 AND you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
Eph 2:1 AND you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
