Thread: More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God - and the Dilectic
Admin
More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God - and the Dilectic
Posted : 11 Aug, 2012 04:31 AM
More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God
Proverbs 3: 5-7 is important "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." A man-made theology becomes a false doctrine because it is "leaning to man's own understanding."
The dialectic process, which Satan used on Eve to fix her obedience to the patriarchal authority of God, and cause her to trust in her flesh, is also leaning to one's own understanding. The dialectic process is dialogue, but dialogue with the purpose of changing the other person's beliefs and doctrines, often in a deceptive way. God's way is "It is written." And - the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was not necessarily harmful to Adam and Eve; it was good to eat of. But God said not to eat of it. The Serpent used dialogue to get Eve to evaluate with her fleshly mind God's commandment and she decided, with the help of the devil, that there was nothing wrong with eating of that tree, and she did. The purpose of the dialectic is to overthrow God's authority over man. Unfortunately, the dialectic is all over our present day society.
I John 2: 15-16 says "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
Pride is an important spiritual indicator of where a Christian is. Those who have been born again by the Spirit may not have gotten rid of pride entirely, but they are not as driven by pride, called self-esteem since psychologized Transformational Marxism began in the fifties in this country, as those not born again.. Those not born again are more likely to be obviously driven by their desire for self-esteem. Zeal for the truth of scripture can be mistaken by those in false doctrines to be pride. And there is a psychological defense mechanism in which those who are dominated by their pride, and have a little awareness of that attribute pride to others, when in fact the others may not be operating out of pride.
Another scripture is Mark 7: 20-23, which is a list of the behaviors of the carnal mind of man, and what is meant in scripture by the flesh can be said to be the same as that carnal mind, the human mind without Christ in it. "And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22. Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man ."
Note that Christ here includes covetousness, deceit and pride as thoughts and behaviors which defile a man, that is, thoughts and behaviors of the carnal mind, which is the fleshly mind. Pride is a work of the flesh, just as is adultery. To covet or have a very strong desire for money, material things, and high self-esteem is a work of the flesh, as is the use of deception, and pride is self-esteem. The carnal or fleshly mind is the human mind which leans to its own understanding and is not directed by God.
Understanding pride, called self-esteem, as a work of the carnal mind, not born again, helps to understand what the dialectic is in secular as well as in Christian dialogue. The dialectic as part of dialogue starts from the carnal mind.
The dialectic begins when a relationship comes into conflict with an
absolute truth. It could also be an absolute morality that a
relationship comes into conflict with. The relationship is often with
the church, and one's own denomination, his or her own congregation,
the minister, and friends within that congregation.
The dialectic as an argument then tries to compromise that absolute
truth in some way - in order to preserve the relationship.
Th world has, during the period the falling away of II Thessalonians
2: 3-4 has gone on and the leavening of the church has been in
progress (Luke 13: 21), shifted its paradigm. The West of Northern
Europe and North America shifted from a mostly absolute truth to
shades of grey, to opinion, to how do you feel about it, what do you
think? The church, being part of the world has also shifted its way
of viewing absolute truth, though it has to teach scripture to some
extent to preserve its standing as a supposed spiritual institution.
The church doesn't support the absolute truth that Paul and Barnabas,
for example, in Acts 15: 2, contended for against the leaven of the
Pharisees. It says there was "no small dissension and disputation
with them," that is, with the Pharisees, some of whom now claimed to
be Christians, but were promoting the leaven of the Pharisees (Luke
12: 1, Mark 8: 15)
The dialectic as an argument, a way of changing the absolute truth
that one's opponent holds to, historically has come out of a system of
thought which teaches that there is no God.. It comes out of Hegel
and Marx. But before Hegel and Marx it came out of the Dragon of
Revelation 13: 11, whose use of the dialectic was on Eve in Genesis 3
to fix her obedience to the absolute authority of God over her.
The tactics of the dialectic argument vary, but it often avoids a
direct focus upon the main teachings of whatever absolute truth - from
Scripture - is the issue, and hits at it from the side. It also tends
to misrepresent the presentation of the opponent.
In other words, to defend Christian Zionism, the dialectic does not
deal with those scriptures most relevant to the issue of whether or
not the Bible teaches that God now has two peoples, All physical
Israel and the "church." The issue of the "church," claimed to be a second
Body of Christ, is another problem in the present day churches.
However, Christian Zionists will go to Romans 11: 26 and claim this
text supports their theology, when in fact it doesn't if interpreted
More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God - and the Dilectic
Posted : 11 Aug, 2012 06:31 PM
This is a good article until the end where you always seem to attack the biblical view of Israel. No the church did not replace physical Israel, however, there is a remnant that will be saved from Israel, together with us the gentiles who have been grafted into the olive branch, if you pull out the root the branch will fall off. The gifts and callings of YHWH are irrevocable.
More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God - and the Dilectic
Posted : 12 Aug, 2012 10:34 AM
"This is a good article until the end where you always seem to attack the biblical view of Israel. No the church did not replace physical Israel, however, there is a remnant that will be saved from Israel, together with us the gentiles who have been grafted into the olive branch, if you pull out the root the branch will fall off. The gifts and callings of YHWH are irrevocable."
The root is Jesus Christ. To say that All Physical Israel is the root would be a rejection of many of Paul's texts. There are scriptures that say the Body of Christ is built upon the foundation of Christ and the Apostles (Ephesians 2: 20) , and in this sense the Apostles are part of the Root of the good olive tree in Romans 11. But the Apostles of Christ were led by the Spirit into that spiritual body that Peter talks about in I Peter 2: 5-9, and out of All Physical Israel. All Physical Israel was in the Religion of the Pharisees and has stayed there in Talmudic Judaism. Talmudic Judaism rejects Christ so strongly that it blasphemes. See Revelation 2: 9. The Talmud is available to read. And Talmudic Judaism, as derived from the religion of the Pharisees, is the majority part of All Physical Israel.
The revolt driven by the leaven of the Pharisees that ended in the first Summit Meeting in Acts 15 was never completely rejected by the leadership in Jerusalem. By the time Paul went back to Jerusalem in Acts 21 and reported to James, Peter and John "what things God had brought about by his (Paul's) ministry among the Gentiles," the leaders of the Jerusalem Christians, apparently their leader James said in Acts 21: 20-24 "and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
21. and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22. "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23. "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24. take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law."
When Paul followed the request of James, and went to the Temple, they tried to kill him, and he was saved only by the Roman soldiers. He was never a free man after that.
In Acts 15: 1-2 "Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
2. And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue."
Paul and Barnabus in their zeal for the truth contended with the Pharisees who were mixing the Old Covenant ceremonial law with the Gospel of Christ. And in Acts 15: 7-9 Peter, knowing that the source of the contention was the pride of the Pharisees and dislike for the Gentile Christians, said that God put no difference between them and the Jewish Christians. James then quotes Amos 9: 11 and said in Acts 15: 15 that the prophets, not just Amos alone, agree with what Peter had said.
But by the time of Paul's second meeting with the leaders in Jerusalem, in Acts 21, James stated that thousands of Jews had believed "and they are all zealous of the law." When a statement like this is made, concerning "the law," the Torah, it means they were zealous not only for the moral law, which reflects the righteousness of God, but also for the ceremonial law. The ceremonial law in Hebrews 10: is called a shadow of things to come that can never make one perfect. In Colossians 2: 16-17 Paul says that the institutions of the ceremonial law - holydays, new moons, sabbaths - are a shadow of things to come.
Returning to Hebrew Roots, to mix the Old Covenant with the New, appears to be the primary apostasy of our time. Christian Zionism has led the way for the leaven of the Pharisees since the late 19th century. It is here again in some strength.
More On Flesh Versus the Spirit of God - and the Dilectic
Posted : 12 Aug, 2012 06:04 PM
Some of the errors in the HRM, or ANY, for that matter, who classify themselves Messianic Jews today are:
1. They call for Christians to recognize extra-biblical Jewish books, which are supposed to give fuller understanding of the Greek New Testament. In fact some go so far as to proclaim the Hebrew Scriptures are the authentic scriptures, not the Greek text of the KJV Bible.
The New Testament was given in its original, inspired from the Hand of God, in GREEK, not Hebrew. Most of the extra-biblical Hebrew "scriptures" that the HRM is seeking to foist onto the Christian Church are ancient writings, often with occult and mystical sources, traditional material which are NOT Scripture at all. They are extra-biblical sources of knowledge.
The Bible was written in 3 languages:
1. Hebrew was the Language of the Old Testament.
2. Aramaic was the language of the far east until the time of Alexander the Great.
3. Greek was the New Testament language and the International language at the time of Christ.
But yet the Hebrew Roots Movement claims falsely that the original Gospels were written in Hebrew, or possibly Aramaic, and that the Greek New Testament is a mere translation and in some cases a mis-translation of the Hebrew or Aramaic originals. They have even gone so far (some of them) to conclude that Paul's writings where he addressed the heresy they teach, were re-written by Rome and are not authentic. Of course they cannot prove this, but it is enough to cast doubt in their adherents and justify themselves in their error.
The Canon of Scripture is closed and preserved by the Lord in the Greek language. Whether Christians are from Jewish backgrounds or not, we must all recognize the authority of God's Word, as given to us in the Canon of Holy Scripture. No other books can or should be added to this Canon.
While Catholics also add to the Canon of Scripture extra-biblical books and teach much apostasy, the same pattern is seen in the Hebrew Roots Movement as seen in Catholicism. Both add works to divine grace making the grace of Christ of no effect. The Bible is divinely inspired by God from Genesis to Revelation, no other writings are necessary for understanding the Bible. The Holy Spirit reveals the Word to us and we do not need that any man teach us. No other authority can be accepted. Jewish extra-biblical writings do NOT enlighten Christians as to the "hidden meanings" of Scripture. The deep things of God are shown to surrendered Christians by the Holy Spirit opening Scripture and making the Bible plain!
Another huge problem to this movement is that it seems only the Jewish converts and/or rabbis can read and interpret the Hebrew texts which THEY SAY are the authentic and correct New Testament. Out goes the Greek NT you have in the KJV, and in comes the Judaic version with its priests and rabbis. But, Jesus is our High-Priest and the Holy Spirit is our teacher, we do not need man to teach us and if we submit to the teaching of man, whether Jewish Rabbi or Fundamentalist preacher, we will be led astray.
This movement is seeking to cast doubt on the faith once delivered to the church by challenging the very Scriptures we have been given by the Lord. They claim Christians can't fully understand the Scripture until we understand the Torah. But the opposite is true. You will not understand the OT (or the Torah) until you have true revelation of the NT. And if you have true revelation of the NT, you will not allow yourself to fall back under the weak system of the Old Covenant, because you will know the liberty you have found in Christ fulfills all.
The Old Testament (or Torah) is not the greater revelation, nor does the OT shine light on the NT, the NT opens and reveals the OT and shows what the symbols and shadows really meant. The DEEPER things of God are found in the NT, not the OT, because Christ is revealed in all of his glory in the NT. We are rooted, all of us, in CHRIST and while the OT is filled with the glory of the Lord, the NT opens up and reveals His glory in splendor and shows us that intimacy with Christ comes through his sacrifice which surpasses all that went before. Emphasis on the Torah over the NT is emphasizing that which could not save. The Holy Spirit given to all those who are in Christ Jesus, gives us understanding and leads us into all truth, not the Torah.
