Thread: Revelation 9: 18, the Third Part of Men Will Be Killed - and the Dialectic
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Revelation 9: 18, the Third Part of Men Will Be Killed - and the Dialectic
Posted : 18 Nov, 2012 02:22 AM
Revelation 9: 18, the Third Part of Men Will Be Killed - and the Dialectic
In Genesis 3: 1-7 Satan got Eve to dialogue with him and in that process he used the dialectic on her to lead her out of her faith in God, and out of her obedience to God. For God made man in his image (Genesis 1:27), which means that man was to be of three parts, like God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Man was to be body, mind and spirit. Yet man had to be in relationship with God in order for his spirit to develop. Satan deceived Eve into dialoging with him and in doing so she and Adam lost that close, face to face relationship with God.
But in Genesis 3: 8-13 God again talked directly with them.
"And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10. And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12. And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."
Then in Matthew 4: 1-11, Satan tried to use the same dialectic on Jesus Christ that he used successfully on Eve in the Garden. But each time Satan tried to move Christ away from his obedience to the Father and from his faith, Christ answered the devil with scripture, "it is written." Satan's dialectic did not work on Christ and in verse 11, "Then the devil leaveth him..." Satan gave up trying to move Christ off his position by dialogue, by the dialectic.
What the devil has wanted to do to man is to diminish and then destroy his spirit, the third part of man. The devil is willing to allow man to keep his two parts, his body and his mind, but not his spirit. Man having spirit from God is a threat to the fallen angels, and they became jealous of man with a spirit from God. Remember that man has to be in relationship with God in order for God to develop man's spirit. Man's body and mind, can seemingly - to man - exist independently of a relationship with God. But - in having a relationship with God, man must also have a love for the truth that God gives to man as doctrines. Man cannot make up his own doctrines and still be in relationship with God.
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3: 5-6
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but if of the world." I John 2: 16
"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22.Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:" Mark 7: 21-22
The activities of the flesh of man, his body and his mind, include pride, which in psychology, is self-esteem.
Again, the goal of Satan is to destroy man's spirit, which survives man's body and mind, both being flesh. And remember that Satan and his fallen angels have been pitched out of heaven, while man, if his spirit is developed in relationship ith God, inherits the kingdom of God.
And with this in mind lets look at Revelation 9: 13, 18-19, "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God...By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt."
The literalist "hermeneutic" - from the pagan god Hermes - of Christian Zionism helps to lead most Christians to see the "third part of men killed" as one third of mankind being killed by these demons described here, or by their human minions. But if we see that God made man to be of three parts, like God, then the third part of man being killed would be one part of man. Guess which part of man Satan and his demons want to kill?
This process of killing man's spirit, developed in close relationship with Jesus Christ, has been going on for some time.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn made a speech at Harvard in 1978 in which he suggested that humanism had undermined Christianity and allowed Marxism to have an influence. Apparently Solzhenitsyn did not specifically get into what has been called Transformational Marxism, which is the Frankfurt School. - or the neo-conservative movement which is another wing of non-Bolshevik Marxism, which came out of the leftist Marxist and Zionist City College of New York intellectuals of the thirties.
Transformational Marxism does not advertize itself as being Marxist, and so the populace as a whole does no recognize it as Marxism. But Marx, like Freud, is atheistic, and believes that since there is no God, everything is permitted. Remember the concept of dialectical materialism in more orthodox or Bolshevik type Marxism? Marxism makes much use of the dialectic process of attitude and belief change. And Marxism is atheistic, meaning it is materialistic, knowing only man's body and mind, while rejecting any concept that man has a spirit from God.
The Frankfurt School of non-Bolshevik Marxism first mixed Marx with Freud, and later after almost all of the members of the Frankfurt School intellectuals came to the United States they mixed Marx with several movements within American psychology. They promoted a Marxist form of personality-social psychology. Theodore W. Adorno posed as a personality-social psychologist in writing his very influential book The Authoritarian Personality (1950). In 1956 Marxist educational psychologist Benjamin Bloom published his first volume of Taxonomy of Educational Goals, which came to be used to certify all public school teachers.
The Frankfurt School made use of the findings on group cohesiveness and attitude change within the Group Dynamics movement of the fifties, and in the sixties they used the encounter group movement to further their change agenda, and their "long march through the institutions." Dean Gotcher who is the authority on the Frankfurt School, has written and spoken many times on a number of individual change agents within Transformational Marxism, several of whom were Americans. These change agents studied by Dean Gotcher are Theodore W. Adorno, Abraham Maslow, Herbert Marcuse, Carl Rogers
Irvin Yalom, Erick Fromm, and Norman O. Brown.
By the use of the Group Dynamics, and the encounter group movements, plus the work of these other individual psychologist and psychiatrist change agents, Transformational Marxism developed the old dialectic attitude change procedure into a more effective process. This developed dialectic process was later incorporated into and used by the media, politicians, the corporations, education,military, and even by the Christian churches, so that it became very pervasive in society by the turn of the century. The dialectic, now made more effective by American psychology, is the same process used successfully by Satan on Eve to fix her obedience to God and diminish her relationship with him. And to begin to destroy man's spirit.
Psychology knows only man's body and mind, and does not acknowledge man's third part given by God, his spirit, which must be developed in close relationship with God and in obedience to God's doctrines. So for Satan's use of Transformational Marxism in his drive to diminish and destroy man's spirit, psychology is the perfect weapon.
Now, closer to the Day of the Lord, we are seeing an alignment of Christian Zionist theology (dispensationalism) with the Hebrew Roots, Sacred Name and Messianic Judaism movements to honor all physical Israel as the chosen people who now as a remnant accept their Messiah.
But in Acts 15: 5 it says "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
These Pharisees believed that Christ was their Messiah, but they wanted also to keep the law of Moses, which is the ceremonial law, the shadow of Hebrews 10: 1 and of Colossians 2: 17. The issue between the Pharisees within the Christian community in Jerusalem and Paul and his crew was circumcision, but Acts 15 is clear that the "Christian" Pharisees wanted observance of other ceremonial traditions (Acts 15: 5). Circumcision is important for Jewish identity. But the belief in being a chosen people because of their physical descent from Abraham is an even more important part of the identity of all physical Israel.
James as the leader and spokesman for the Jerusalem Christians made a compromise between the "Christian" Pharisees and Paul's position in Acts 15: 19-21, 29, "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20.But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21.For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.......That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
James agreed not to impose circumcision on Paul's non-Jewish Christians, but he, in compromise, conceded some to the "Christian" Pharisees. James gave the non-Jewish Christians only two ceremonial laws to keep and one moral law, the one moral law being the law against fornication. But he also made the statement that Moses is read in the synagogues ever sabbath, implying that the non-Jewish Christians ought to go hear the law of Moses read. This compromise of James was not in full agreement with the revelation given to Paul by Christ. And so after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Jerusalem was no longer a center for the spread of Christianity. Paul's headquarters was Antioch in Syria, from which the Gospel, including Paul's revelation, spread to Europe and elsewhere.
Hebrews 8: 6 says that Christ obtained a better covenant for his people and Hebrews 10: 9 says clearly that Christ took away the Old Covenant so that he could establish the New Covenant. One cannot stay in Christ and go back to the Old Covenant or to selected parts of the Old Covenant.
In Acts 15: 2 Paul and Barnabus dissented with he "Christian" Pharisees over the issue of circumcision and of wanting all Christians to follow the ceremonial law of Moses. Paul was being faithful to and zealous of the revelation given to him by Jesus Christ.
"But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee," Acts 26: 16-17
Paul received new revelation, given to him by the risen Christ, after the Day of Pentecost, and Christ says he will appear unto Paul - to give him the revelation.
Part of Paul's revelation is expressed in Galatians 3: 3-29, where he explains that all those in Christ, of any genetics, are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to the promise. This does away with the chosen people by virtue of their genetics. Christians became the chosen people by faith and by having some of the mind of Christ in them (Philippians 3; 5, Colossians 1: 27, I Peter 2: 5-9). Paul's revelation is expressed in other texts, especially in Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, Galatians 4: 25-26, and Ephesians 2: 11-16.
A relationship with Christ cannot be true unless one accepts all the doctrines of Christ. "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:" II John 1: 9-10
Going back to the position of the believing Pharisees of Acts 15 - accepting the Messiah according to all physical Israel and saying that the ceremonial law of Moses or parts of it must also be kept - is a clear rejection of the revelation given to Paul by Christ. That revelation is part of the Gospel of Christ and rejecting it severs a true relationship with Christ.
Revelation 9: 18, the Third Part of Men Will Be Killed - and the Dialectic
Posted : 18 Nov, 2012 06:12 AM
"And with this in mind lets look at Revelation 9: 13, 18-19, "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God...By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt."
The literalist "hermeneutic" - from the pagan god Hermes - of Christian Zionism helps to lead most Christians to see the "third part of men killed" as one third of mankind being killed by these demons described here, or by their human minions. But if we see that God made man to be of three parts, like God, then the third part of man being killed would be one part of man. Guess which part of man Satan and his demons want to kill?"
Christ says in Matthew 10: 28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Destroy is from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Number 622, apollumi, to perish, or lose, literally or figuratively..."
But in Matthew 25: 41 Christ says "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
So to destroy that part of man which is eternal or to kill it does not mean to annihilate the soul or spirit of man. It means something else.
Hebrews 2: 14 says "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"
God as sovereign allowed Satan to have the power of death, and spiritual death is meant in Hebrews 2: 14.
I Peter 5: 8 says "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" To be devoured by the devil means to lose your eternal life with Christ.
Revelation 9: 18, "By these three were the third part of men..." apokteino, put to death, interpreted by use of Matthew 10: 28. Hebrews 2: 14 and I Peter 5: 8, would mean that Satan, through his demonic and human minions called serpents there, causes men to lose eternal live with Jesus Christ. It does not say how many men lose their eternal life in Christ through this end time movement of Satan.
Death is spiritual death in Scripture, and Hell is a place. The use of
Death and Hell, with Death usually coming before Hell, (except in
Revelation 1; 18) in Scripture almost suggests that Death and Hell are
being used as personifications. As persons might be thrown into the
lake of fire.
Death and Hell (Revelation 20: 14) are cast into the lake of fire, along with the False Prophet, (Revelation 20: 10) representing many false prophets.
Isaiah 28: 15 says "We have made a covenant with Death, and
with Hell are we in agreement."
Revelation 6: 8 tells us "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."
Christ in Revelation 1; 18 says "I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell
