Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 9 Jan, 2014 04:34 PM
You would do better on a forum that supports atheism or maybe paganism............ but not one supporting Jesus Christ and what He stands for
Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death
Since you are obviously aware of, and expecting someone to post these verses (or many others like them) you must have a real doozy of a response in mind.
Before I comment on your response whatever it may be; I have a question for you.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 9 Jan, 2014 05:04 PM
Hi Doug,may i call you Doug:
I am on this chat forum like others,to proclaim the truth of Scriptures,to hear the truth the Holy Spirit has revealed to others,and to edify and be edified.
Also to encourage others to go beyond the translations they have, and get back to the languages from which the English, and other translations have been taken from.
Now back to your answer.
You would do better on a forum that supports atheism or maybe paganism............ but not one supporting Jesus Christ and what He stands for.
1. There is no such thing as an 'Atheist' seeing that a persons 'Unbelief ' is their religion,it is a religion of UNBELIEF.
Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
2. This Scripture is after Messiah tells the Pharisses that He has power on earth to forgive sins,and Yeshua shows this by declaring this.
Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Luk 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Luk 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
Luk 5:25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
Messiah calls people to repent of their UNBELIEF because they said that He cannot forgive sins vs 21.
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
My question to you is this,what is to be repented of in this Scripture.
Since you are obviously aware of, and expecting someone to post these verses (or many others like them) you must have a real doozy of a response in mind.
Before I comment on your response whatever it may be; I have a question for you.
Why are you here?
Doug IF repenting of sin is the means of being saved from the wrath of GOD Almighty,then why did Messiah go to Calvary and there He carried your sin(s),my sin(s),and the WHOLE WORLDS sin(s) to be judge by YHWH.
What sin then needs to be repented of in order to be saved from the wrath of GOD.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Now what does repent mean,does it mean to turn from sin unto GOD as the so called church has been told for so long,
OR does repent mean to just simply change your mind towards what you have been believing about the TRIUNE GODHEAD.
When the Holy Spirit reveals this to you,then you will understand the truth.
concerning repentance.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 9 Jan, 2014 06:05 PM
You will get agreement from me over the need for Christians to consider the original language, however these days good lexicons are widely available. Also the 1828 Webster dictionary is easily found and is better for understanding some of the words from the early English language that appear in some translations.
Concerning what repentance is needed
Sin separates man from God today the same as it did with Adam. The law of the seed was already in effect before Adam was formed and given a source of life (spirit) in agreement with God, (because Adam's life came from God). Consequently, Adam was born under the law of the seed that simply stated means Adam's fallen sinful nature was passed down onto his offspring. (Whether or not you believe he was created righteous in the beginning is irrelevant at this point)
So even without a transgression of the law (if that is the standard you want to use for determining sin as a verb) there is still a form of sin present "by law" and living in all of mankind that is a noun which by definition of the original language defines it as a principality a.k.a. a life-giving force even though it is a form of life living under a sentence of death (because of sin) as is all of mankind.
This is the �law of sin� Paul said lived within his members in Romans 7:23, and is the same noun spoken of as a thorn in his flesh that was a messenger of Satan in 2nd Corinthians 12:8. This �noun� that exists in all of mankind is what makes the spirit of man an unclean spirit that separates man from God. It is what made Paul do things that he did not want to do, and kept him from doing what he wanted to do. It is the driving force behind crime, poverty, greed, etc. etc.
While this uncleanliness in a newborn baby is only in the form of a seed there is nothing to stop it from taking on life and becoming a fruit producing tree in the image of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that it originally came from. (because of the sin of disobedience)
If nothing else, knowledge of the truth should bring a person to godly sorrow, and it is godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation.......... according to the Bible.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 9 Jan, 2014 06:41 PM
Hi Doug:
Thank you for your reply.
What is the ROOT of sin,is this not UNBELIEF.
When Adam fell did he fall because he had 'sinned' or did he sin because he did not believe what YHWH, when YHWH had said not to eat of the tree in the middle of the garden.
When a person is empowered of the Holy Spirit to repent of their unbelief,will not the sin fall by the wayside,seeing that sin is the result of ones unbelief.
ie.
Let us say that a tree represents unbelief and sin,the branches are sin and the tap root represents the unbelief.
Repenting of ones sin is like trying to remove a tree by cutting off one branch at a time;the only problem with this is that each time a branch is removed more will begin growing back,so it is with sin.
Yet if a person were to cut the tap root of the tree, the tree would begin to wither over a short period of time,the tree could be removed and the root system removed.
Without the tap root the tree cannot receive any type of nutrients from the soil to continue living.
The same thing happens with sin in peoples lives.
No more tap root,no more tree.
Repent of unbelief and the sin will be done with.
Oh by the way,the Word of GOD does not call people 'sinners',but rather sinful.
Num_32:14 And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.
Isa_1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Amo_9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
Mar_8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luk_5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
Luk_24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
Rom_7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 9 Jan, 2014 06:56 PM
I too have to get up early,
Consequently, I will be brief.
Adam had no problem with unbelief and as the Scripture say he was not deceived. Adam was standing right there and had a choice of either to remain obedient to God, or to follow the voice and desires of Eve coming from his flesh. (Eve did come from the flesh of Adam Amen?)
Which just happens to still be the problem with mankind including those within the church.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 10 Jan, 2014 04:53 PM
Hi Doug:
I posted your answer and i want to see where this leads.
Adam had no problem with unbelief and as the Scripture say he was not deceived. Adam was standing right there and had a choice of either to remain obedient to God, or to follow the voice and desires of Eve coming from his flesh. (Eve did come from the flesh of Adam Amen?)
Which just happens to still be the problem with mankind including those within the church.
Doug,you say Adam had no problem with 'UNBELIEF',that his real problem was he was not OBEDIENT.
Let me ask this,when a person sins,do they sin because they are not obedient to GOD,or do they sin because they do not BELIEVE what GOD had said.
If Adam had no problem with Unbelief,then you have to blame GOD for making
Eve,seeing that Eve is the problem and she was created by GOD Almighty.
If we do not come to understand that ALL sin stems from unbelief,then we have to blame someone else for the sin,and who do we blame.
I understand that it is hard for someone to admit that they sin because they do not believe what GOD Almighty says in His Word,but that is the only position from which a person can be truthful with GOD and themselves.
Confess you sins one to another,how about confessing your unbelief one to another that you may be healed.
For what sin is there no forgiveness, not repenting of sin,OR not believing Yeshua to save you from the wrath of GOD.
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
No mention of REPENTING of SIN in any of these verses,as repenting of sin to be saved is WORKS.
Shalom
ps:
Who was the one that told Eve not to touch the tree or you will die.
Could it have been Adam?
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 10 Jan, 2014 06:29 PM
Interesting how much GNWS topics and posts remind me of Trucker George�what ever happend to him ???...Anywho...welcome to the forums GNWS
Shared ~
ps: Who was the one that told Eve not to touch the tree or you will die.
Could it have been Adam?
*** Maybe�there is no record of who told Eve and in verses Gen 2:16-18 GOD commands man you shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge and then GOD speaks of making a women for him�so a person can say Adam told her�however it is not recorded�so it is an assumption that Adam informed Eve�after all Adam was given dominion over ALL and that includes the woman GOD made from man for man...
Gen 2:16-18
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, �Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.�
18 And the LORD God said, �It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.�
Shared ~
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
*** Notice here in Gen 3:3 what Eve says to the serpent and compare it to what GOD said in Gen 2:16-17 below here�
Gen 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, �Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.�
*** Compare ~
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, [[[ neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. ]]]
*** GOD didn�t say [[[ neither shall you touch it, lest ye die ]]]�Eve added to the WORD of GOD�DO you see it ???...and this is a "SIN"�and because of it the serpent was able to plant the deception that it is OK�and Adam went along with it�the Real SIN in my BOOK�came from satan in HIS mis-leading and deception and he took advantage of an innocent being Eve and when SIN entered [[[ her ]]] she in like manner deceived Adam�and MAN/Woman Fell�for they are both ADAM in the beginning�So�this is not about the Sin of Un-Belief�a person cannot Believe in something when there isn�t anything to compare it to�YET !!!...Thats my 2 bits and ima out of this thread�Yall hava Blessed evening/day/weekend where ever you are in the world�God Bless�xo
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 11 Jan, 2014 11:12 AM
@GNWS:
This is so simple. When we change what we believe we change the direction of our lives. Repent simply means to turn around and walk the other way. It comes from a military command. We take a new direction.
Why you believe is the result of faith which is the channel for grace to operate. You are saved by grace (the empowering presence of God) because you have faith which came because you heard from God. Because you have heard, had faith, been empowered by grace, you repent. And it all happens in a moment. In a now that we cannot fully comprehend and really don't need to.
We know that how we live is the evidence of faith, that is, our belief system, and we know what we have for our belief system because how we live is the evidence of it. Therefore, if we have chosen a belief system that is focused on Jesus and have been empowered by grace to exercise our belief in Him we will have repented because our life will now reflect a change in our belief system.
Unfortunately, this is a difficult topic to discuss until you have defined what you mean by repentance and especially what you mean by salvation. Are you talking about salvation from sinning, sin or sins? Salvation from eternal damnation as in saving one's life? Salvation through healing from the life of sinning?
What do you mean by faith. Faith as a belief system or faith as belief that an event or statement is true. Faith that controls your whole life or faith that you will be able to do a specific thing or that your actions will bring about a specific result.
And what about sin? Do you mean the acts of sin, i.e. sinning? A sinful lifestyle? The penalty of sin? The ravaging affects of sin on your life? Or just a single act that is a sin?
Salvation, faith and repentance can all be very vague at times. You need to be more specific if you want to accurately argue your point.
Repentance of sin is not necessary to being 'SAVED'
Posted : 11 Jan, 2014 05:17 PM
Hi SBD:
I believe you have stated that to repent means to turn around and walk the other way.
This is so simple. When we change what we believe we change the direction of our lives. Repent simply means to turn around and walk the other way. It comes from a military command. We take a new direction.
Me:
Actually to repent does not mean to to change direction and turn the other way,maybe a dictionary says that but the Word of GOD does not.
2) to change one�s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one�s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from G3326 and G3539
The root word here is NOUS which means mind not live,so a person is to be having their mind changed towards GOD,His ways and His Word.
Messiah says to be transformed by the renewing of your mind,not to change the direction you are going.
Too many people have been listening to men talking about things which they themselves do not understand,instead of investigating the Word of GOD for themselves.
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
