I have talked with / written to some men who made it pretty clear that their former relationship included sleeping with a person. That totally goes against what God expects a Christian to do!!! These men came from this CDFF site!!! I want a man who, even if married before, to show self-control. God forbid that I allow a man to "take me to bed" as a part of our relationship!! Saving ourselves for the one who God chooses for us is going to help us trust our mates, and they, in turn, will be able to trust us more. It has been proven that if a person is promiscuous before marriage, it will carry over into the marriage.
I may be waiting a long time for God's choice; maybe God is helping me to become stronger in the self-control physical part!
1st: I totally agree with you when it comes to promiscuity. I oppose it as you do.
2nd: AIDS is spread by unsafe sex. Yes. But also by bad hyginene. It is mostly spread in Africa, where hygiene is generally bad. And it is not the children's fault, that their parents sinned, if they did...
3rd: Do me the favor and read through your arguments again. PLease take care on whether you take one bible passage (Adam and Eve, the covenant) and see this as given and then explain all other parts from that point of view.
You could also start the other way round, starting at say, Jacob's place and explain all from that point, saying maybe that marriage does not need to be with multiple women, as Adam had ony Eve, but that a man could have as well more women...
You think from your inside that one man-one women is true, you take the bible passage that prooves it and give some kind of explaination for all that oppose that. You could for example also say, Adam having one wife was due to historic reasons, because there was no other woman...
I do not want to say that you are wrog and I am right, I just want you to see that it is not so easy. If you say, no sex before marrige is your way, bravo, I completely support you.
But please, don't look down on other christians because they go different ways, because they start their argument at another part of the bible...
I have studied the bible for years. I use adam and eve because that is where marriage was invented. God invented it himself. I might add that God could have easily made more women for adam if he so wished or thought it was a good idea. He had the power and ability to do so if he wished to. He didnt though. Why? Because he doesnt want it to be that way! Or he would have made it so.
Aside from that, multiple wives is a toatally different subject than sex before marriage. But you should keep in mind that even the men who chose to take multiple wives still married them before they had sexual relations with them.
Also Ill add that if you read the stories from the bible the men who chose to take more than one wife always had huge problems that could have been avoided had he only taken one. Abraham would never had to take the pain of banishing his son and second wife to the wilderness ( Which he DID NOT want to do but sarah insisted)
There would not have been the favoritism we see played in the family of jacob where he favored some of his sons (especially joseph) because they were the sons of a favored wife.
King david would not have had to suffer the tremendous heart ache of dealing with Mical saul's daughter and his first wife whom after David took more wives he neglected Mical, didnt have kids with her and he had the ones she adopted killed.
But we note that the men especially noted for thier righteousness either have no mention of a wife at all such as enoch or elijah, or they are noted to have only one wife such as noah, or job.
Marriage is Gods idea and he laid the rules out. I didnt make them, I didnt write the bible I just teach what it teaches regardless of whether or not the teaching may be convenient for me or not. I teach it whether I like it or not. Man has always wanted to do things his way, and he will sometimes try to come with some decievingly cunning ways to justify himself and his actions, but the bottom line is God says otherwise and we have to come to terms with that instead of trying to interpret the bible in such a way that it says what we want it to say. We need to just accept it for what it really says.
Anyone can twist scriptures to say what we want it to say. That is why it is often beneficial to see what the WHOLE bible says about a subject. Moses, Jesus, Peter,Paul, and the father himself all taught one man one woman marriage that is portrayed as a covenant that is sealed with sexual relations. Thats just how it is like it or not. the whole bible teaches it. To try and twist scripture to justify what we want to do is WRONG, and is an act of rebellion towards God. We need to just read it how it is and instead of changing the bible to say what we want it to, we should change ourselves to the standards the bible says. That being said I do not debate this with you out of spite, anger, arrogance, or with a haughty attitude, but with love and hope that the teaching actually helps.
Sin has cost me EVERYTHING in the past. Especially sexual sin. It destroys lives, and families. It hurts innocent children and creates bitter unhappy people who cant let go of thier own hurt and hatred. Having seen all this I am strongly convicted to talk this out with you. So please please please dont take it as an insult or attack. I hope this helps God bless ya!
really how about divorce you beeing separated and looking for someone ? jesus said you put your husband away you are commiting adultry ... how about that ?
What Jesus said, Jesus said. Divorce is wrong and too many people try to justify divorce. Even ministers refrain from teaching about it because they dont want to offend people who have been divorced in fear that they will lose part of there congregation. The church needs to start calling sin what it is, SIN. God is merciful and has the power to forgive us of anything including divorce, So I dont believe in condemning people who have been divorced before if they have a repentant heart about it, but the bible and Jesus himself is very clear that divorce is only acceptable in the instance of sexual infidelity or if the spouse leaves you on there own will because of your faith. I will point out though that even in those two circumstances the bible strongly urges us to do whatever we can to save the marriage even in those circumstances. The church has to stop trying to justify our sins, such as divorce that runs so rampant even within the church. It hurts our witness as christians and it hurts our standard and quality of living and it hurts our children and families. We have to stop being so selfish and try to work things out with our spouse even when the going gets tough. After all that is what we promise in our wedding vows anyways. Why make the vow if you dont intend on doing everything in your power to live up to it? Its a joke and a disgrace for us to give up on our marriages so easily. So yeah I hope that helps!
i know i am new to this site so for this forgive me but as a christian i feel that we ought to live by gods words ,in our everyday walk ,maybe im a little odd for this but i belive we ought to wait till after marrige for the physical part of any relationship and that the spirital and emotional ought to come first
After reading the many posts here and seeing that there are those who do not think pre-marital sex is wrong under certain conditions like being in love, I felt compelled to present this study I did to help clarify this issue. This is a bit long but worth the read I believe.
1Cor 6::9 � Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Now Paul contrasts believers from unbelievers.
11 And such WERE some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 � All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is NOT for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." {Gen 2:24}
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 FLEE SEXUAL IMMORALITY. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; THEREFORE glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God�s.
1Cor 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner��not even to eat with such a person.
Above, Paul is making a very strong statement to not have any fellowship with someone claiming to be a believer and yet are in a state of unrepentent fornication.
Let's take a closer look at what fornication is and what it means to "TOUCH" a woman.
1Cor 7:1 And concerning the things of which ye wrote to me: good it is for a man NOT to TOUCH a woman, (YLT)
2 and because of the whoredom let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her proper husband; (YLT)
TOUCH: G680 haptomai pronounced hap'-tom-ahee
Reflexive of G681; properly to attach oneself to, that is, to touch (in many implied relations): - touch.
1Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let
every man have his own wife, and let every woman have
her own husband.(KJV)
Fornication:
4202 porneia porneia por-ni�-ah from 4203; TDNT-6:579,918; n f
AV-fornication 26; 26
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; #Le 18:6-23
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; #Mr 10:11,12
2) metaph. the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
4203 proneuw porneuo pronounced porn-yoo�-o
from 4204; TDNT-6:579,918; v
AV-commit fornication 7, commit 1; 8
1) to prostitute one�s body to the lust of another
2) to give one�s self to unlawful sexual intercourse
2a) to commit fornication
3) metaph. to be given to idolatry, to worship idols
3a) to permit one�s self to be drawn away by another into idolatry
1Cor 7:7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
1Co 7:8 But I say to the UNMARRIED and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
1Co 7:9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Now Paul is not saying that you should go ahead and get married just to have sex so don't book any reservations and run off to Las Vegas. OK? Marriage must be built on deeper things and it is a life long commitment. Sex is the icing on the cake so to speak.
First let's address the word "TOUCH" in it's context of this passage.
G680 haptomai hap'-tom-ahee
Reflexive of G681; properly to attach oneself to, that is, to touch (in many implied relations): - touch.(Strongs)
Thayer Definition:
1) to fasten one�s self to, adhere to, cling to
1a) to touch 1b) of carnal intercourse with a women or cohabitation
1c) of levitical practice of having no fellowship with heathen practices. Things not to be touched appear to be both women and certain kinds of food, so celibacy and abstinence of certain kinds of food and drink are recommended.
1d) to touch, assail anyone
Part of Speech: verb
The proper application of this word in this context is 1B) "of carnal intercourse with a women or cohabitation." Obviously from this verse Paul is not intending for us to interpret it as any form of prostitution, but as "pre-marital" sexual relations, which of course could include a prostitute but the passage is not exclusive to it. So as he continues in verse 2, when he says "Fornication" or as Young's puts it, "Whoredom", it is not to be construed as anything other than Pre-marital sex. That would of course imply extra-marital sex.
So to avoid "Fornication" you have to be married otherwise when you have sexual relations with someone you are not married to, then it is "Fornication" / "whoredom" and it is a SIN. And let me touch on an issue I did a study on. If you meet someone and they are "separated" in the process of a divorce, this means that they are still married in the eyes of God. You are not single and you are not free to date and especially not free to have sex. God allows for man's laws and until a judge finalizes the divorce decree, then you are still married and it does not matter the circumstances. Adultery does not automatically cause the mariage covenant to be broken though it is grounds for a divorce to be sought if necessary. If your spouse commited adultery and you are seeking a divorce and then you also while separated have sexual relations with someone, then you have commited adultery as well. You are in a serious predicament now because you may have nullified your right to divorce in God's eyes. How are you any less guilty?
If Pre-Marital or extra-marital sex were permitted there would be no reason for Paul to say that it is better for a man NOT to TOUCH a woman and to avoid "fornication" let each man have his own wife (singular) and each woman have her own husband, (singular).
Now I know some of you are saying, man have I messed up. Well the wonderful thing about Jesus is that His blood covers your sins providing you have placed your Faith in Him and have been baptized. But the key for forgiveness is "Repentence". Have you repented? It means that you have had a 180 degree complete turn around in your mind and do not plan on repeating it. Sometimes it takes time to get past sins. Sometimes we are under bondage. But God's grace will give you the strength to break free. After all, Christ came to free us from our sins and it's bondage. You know the devils know your weaknesses and will exploit them and our sexual desires are one of the strongest physical desires that God gave us. So the key is to not place yourself in a place where your integrity will be compromised. In other words don't be alone with someone of the opposite sex if you know in your heart of hearts that there is any possibility of stumbling or causing them to stumble. Remember that God loves you and wants the best for you!
Amen, FireMedic8. Everyone who proclaim to be a christian should "Know" what the "Word of God" says about Sex outside of Marriage !!!! If there are any men or women on this site that suggest or ask you to have sex with them before marriage it will be your decision. But know that if you do decide to have sex, there is a price. The shame , guilt when you voilate a moral standard. After all that, the person may not stay with you. Some men i have encountered made statements like, " I want to test the waters" It's a sin, now that's the bottom line.
I know I bumped a old post but I wanted to add...let this be the same for women. I chose to wait til marriage. There are women on this site that want their Christian man but still want a high dose of physical medicine.
I am in total agreement with what you've said. Actually, its what "God" said in his word in Proverbs. He says that He "hates" fornication. Those who selfishly rebel against what He asks them to do will only reap a relationship of sorrow and destruction. The relationship will surely fall apart. God has no obligation to keep His hand of blessing on that relationship, as He never blesses disobedience. He's made this very clear in His word, if you'll only read it.
