Author Thread: BAPTISM AND tRUE CONVERSION
firstfruit2

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BAPTISM AND tRUE CONVERSION
Posted : 12 Nov, 2010 01:37 PM

God�s Word makes it very clear that genuine Christian baptism is an adult decision to be made after deep reflection and heartfelt repentance. For, again, it truly pictures the death and burial of our old selfish selves. And in this decision and in this action we are making a covenant with our Creator to accept Jesus Christ�s shed blood as payment for our sins and to truly acknowledge Him as our Lord, or Master, and our coming King whom we will hence�forth obey!

On God�s part, we are promised the precious �gift of the Holy Spirit� (Acts 2:38). Receiving God�s Holy Spirit involves being impregnated with His very nature and character. As the Apostle Paul explains: �The love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us� (Romans 5:5). And, as we read in Galatians 5:22�23, the �fruit� or result of the Holy Spirit in our lives is �love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.�

God�s Holy Spirit gives us the spiritual love and spiritual strength to obey God, to control our lusts, and to walk in His commandments as a way of life. �For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome� (1 John 5:3). So it is not us�in our human strength�keeping God�s commandments; it is Christ living within us His life through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:13: �But he who endures to the end shall be saved.� If we wish to inherit the Kingdom that God has prepared for those that love Him, we must remain faithful till the end. We do this by continuing to abide in Christ (John 15:3). How do you abide in Christ? Notice what John explained in 1 John 2:3�6: �Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, �I know Him,� and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.�

To abide or endure means to remain faithfully anchored and established in the Truth of God. Remember, the Bible shows that the Truth is not merely a list of doctrines to be argued about, but rather, a way of life that must be obeyed and lived (Galatians 3:1; 2 Peter 2:2, 21).

Most professing Christians think that salvation is merely a one time affair. Many who claim to be God�s representatives have trivi�alized God�s promises and His purpose. They have offered a cheap grace that costs the believer nothing. They have promised �liber�ty� by teaching that God�s law is a yoke of bondage and that real obedience to it is unnecessary. In reality their �easy grace� doc�trine that Christ somehow did it all for us only leaves their adher�ents ensnared in the corruption of sin (2 Peter 2:19).

In contrast, Jesus said that those who would come after Him must stand ready to give up everything, even their very lives (Matthew 16:24�25). Christ requires nothing less than total, unconditional commitment and devotion from those who would accept Him as their Lord and Savior. �Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruc�tion�, Christ said. �Not everyone who says to Me, �Lord, Lord,� shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven� (Matthew 7:13, 21). This is the covenant that we are making with our Creator at baptism.

The Bible shows a great and awesome destiny for those who inherit God�s salvation. True conversion involves the total surrender of our life and of our will to Almighty God.

For those who turn to Him in this way, God makes possible our forgiveness, our transformation from the inside out, and our ulti�mate entry into His glorious Kingdom as one of His very sons. Will we encounter difficulties and even suffer persecution sometimes because we are trying to live by God�s instructions rather than by the traditions and customs of the world around us? You bet we will! But we must never forget the Apostle Paul�s admonition that �the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us� (Romans 8:18).

Our personal covenant with our Creator at baptism involves a commitment to a lifetime of change. There will be changes in how we feel, in what we do, and, most of all, in what we are on the inside. True conversion leads to our being �conformed to the image of His Son, that He [Christ] might be the firstborn of many brethren� (Romans 8:29).

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BAPTISM AND tRUE CONVERSION
Posted : 12 Nov, 2010 10:33 PM

Amen

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BAPTISM AND tRUE CONVERSION
Posted : 13 Nov, 2010 01:12 AM

@firstfruits:

BAPTISM AND TRUE CONVERSION Posted : 12 Nov, 2010 01:37 PM



fruit:

God�s Word makes it very clear that genuine Christian baptism is an adult decision to be made after deep reflection and heartfelt repentance.



trucker:

Fruits,could you please give me the Scrioture where you find this statement of your.. Where is baptism an adult decision. Where does deep reflection and what does HEARTFELT repentance have to do with anything.. The just shall live by faith,not heartfelt repentance..

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;



Repentance is granted by YHWH,not being heartfelt. Repentance is the Holy Spirit sanctifying a person. Repentance is not required for Salvation,yet Faith in yeshua is.

Repentance follows faith in Yeshua.



fruit: For, again, it truly pictures the death and burial of our old selfish selves. And in this decision and in this action we are making a covenant with our Creator to accept Jesus Christ�s shed blood as payment for our sins and to truly acknowledge Him as our Lord, or Master, and our coming King whom we will hence�forth obey!



trucker:

Man has never made a Covenant with YHWH. YHWH is the Covenant maker,man is a Covenant breaker.



trucker:There is only one Covenant which YHWH is concerned with,that is the New Covenant which Yeshua shed His blood to fulfill and to seal.

Mat 26:26 And while they were eating, Jesus having taken the bread, and having blessed, did brake, and was giving to the disciples, and said, `Take, eat, this is my body;'

Mat 26:27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it--all;

Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out--to remission of sins; fruit:



fruit:

On God�s part, we are promised the precious �gift of the Holy Spirit� (Acts 2:38). Receiving God�s Holy Spirit involves being impregnated with His very nature and character. As the Apostle Paul explains: �The love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us� (Romans 5:5). And, as we read in Galatians 5:22�23, the �fruit� or result of the Holy Spirit in our lives is �love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.� God�s Holy Spirit gives us the spiritual love and spiritual strength to obey God, to control our lusts, and to walk in His commandments as a way of life. �For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome� (1 John 5:3). So it is not us�in our human strength�keeping God�s commandments; it is Christ living within us His life through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit...........................................





trucker: No one can perfectly obey the commandments of GOD,this is why Yehsua gave his life.

The word "KEEP" here is ususally told to others that they are to OBEY the commandments of GOD.

Did not Yeshua do this for us. Then as we trust Yeshua is not His perfect obedience to the commandments of YHWH IMPUTED to us as though we had ket them ourselves.



This is the Greek word and definition for the English word "Keep.



" Greek-5083(This is the number in Strongs Greek Concordance



τηρέω tēreō tay-reh'-o

From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy; figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain); by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): - hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.





fruit: Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:13: �But he who endures to the end shall be saved.� If we wish to inherit the Kingdom that God has prepared for those that love Him, we must remain faithful till the end. We do this by continuing to abide in Christ (John 15:3). How do you abide in Christ? Notice what John explained in 1 John 2:3�6: �Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, �I know Him,� and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.�





trucker:

Again "Keep"the same Greek word i have posted above.





fruit:

To abide or endure means to remain faithfully anchored and established in the Truth of God. Remember, the Bible shows that the Truth is not merely a list of doctrines to be argued about, but rather, a way of life that must be obeyed and lived (Galatians 3:1; 2 Peter 2:2, 21). Most professing Christians think that salvation is merely a one time affair. Many who claim to be God�s representatives have trivi�alized God�s promises and His purpose. They have offered a cheap grace that costs the believer nothing. They have promised �liber�ty� by teaching that God�s law is a yoke of bondage and that real obedience to it is unnecessary. In reality their �easy grace� doc�trine that Christ somehow did it all for us only leaves their adher�ents ensnared in the corruption of sin (2 Peter 2:19).



trucker:

John 19:30 when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.



The Greek word for the English word finished is:

G5055 τελέω teleō tel-eh'-o From G5056; to end, that is, complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt): - accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.



If Yeshua did not completely finish the work the Father had given to Him,then did not Yeshua lie from the cross.

If there is anything left of the work of Yesua,for me to finish,then i am doomed.

Yeshua drank the cup of GODS wrath,leaving not one drop for me to drink!!!!!



fruit: In contrast, Jesus said that those who would come after Him must stand ready to give up everything, even their very lives (Matthew 16:24�25). Christ requires nothing less than total, unconditional commitment and devotion from those who would accept Him as their Lord and Savior. �Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruc�tion�, Christ said. �Not everyone who says to Me, �Lord, Lord,� shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven� (Matthew 7:13, 21). This is the covenant that we are making with our Creator at baptism.



trucker:

Again man does not make a covenat with YHWH,is not the New Covenant in Yeshuas blood sufficient,or is there still something Yeshua has left for me,and others to finish,concerning Salvation,Sanctification,and Righteousness.. fruit:



fruit:

The Bible shows a great and awesome destiny for those who inherit God�s salvation. True conversion involves the total surrender of our life and of our will to Almighty God.



trucker:

Not one man woman,or child completely surrenders anything to YHWH,this is why we wrestle with Him daily.

Ask Peter and Paul,when they surrendered everthing to YHWH.

Peter still lived under the legal law,





Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.



Peter was also hypocritical:

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?



How about Paul:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.





fruit:

For those who turn to Him in this way, God makes possible our forgiveness, our transformation from the inside out, and our ulti�mate entry into His glorious Kingdom as one of His very sons. Will we encounter difficulties and even suffer persecution sometimes because we are trying to live by God�s instructions rather than by the traditions and customs of the world around us? You bet we will! But we must never forget the Apostle Paul�s admonition that �the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us� (Romans 8:18).



trucker:

Fruit says our forgiveness is dependant upon turning everything over to GOD,even our wills. If FORGIVENESS of my past,present and future sins depends upon my surrendering of things and my will,then WHY DID YESHUA HAVE TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fruit:



fruit: Our personal covenant with our Creator at baptism involves a commitment to a lifetime of change. There will be changes in how we feel, in what we do, and, most of all, in what we are on the inside. True conversion leads to our being �conformed to the image of His Son, that He [Christ] might be the firstborn of many brethren� (Romans 8:29).





trucker:

Again there is only one covenant the Father is interested in,the one which His Son gave His life,and shed His Blood to fulfill..

Change is Sanctification,this is the working of the Holy Spirit within the believer,feelings are necesarily involved here. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.



Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Faith and feelings are two completely different things.



I could feel saved and not actually be saved.

Or I could trust Yeshua to save me,without having and feelings involved at all.



Fruit:I believe you have posted what would be called another gospel... Beware of the warnings within Pauls letter to the Galatians.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. Agape' and Charis: St.George

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