Should Christians Support a Woman for the Office of Civil Magistrate?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2010 04:51 PM
Hi Barkentine,
I believe this question is not easy to answer. The problem lies with that man have sinned and therefore refuse to follow God's word.
Nowadays, people talk about gender equality and such equality promotes sameness in role. I believe this is not the way it should be. Gender equality should be difference in role,equality of value and nature. As Genesis 1:27 indicates that man and woman together reflect God�s image, we must understand the role of man and woman from the trinity concept. The Father is the Father, the Son is the Son. Different in role but one God.
Looking back to the history of Israel, we will find that the very initial government given by God is very different from current practice. Romans 13:1-7 did not say that we should blindly support government, it addresses the issue of paying tax. Why did Moses goes against the Pharaoh?
1. hermeneutics. I admit before this I did not know what is this. My principle of reading the bible revolves around God's word cannot be contradictory and everlasting. After studying hermeneutics, I am of the opinion my principle of interpretation are in accordance with hermeneutics principle after all. Let us reexamine some of the verses you quoted and interpreted according to the Grammato-historical hermeneutic principle,
a. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17
Grammar: according to you that once is fulfilled than the law is destroyed. But grammatically, there is nothing that suggest the law will pass away. It is said I come not to destroy, but to fulfill. The sentence it not give any hint of what happen after fulfilled. The initial words, think not that I am come to destroy the law, have in fact said that Jesus come not to destroy the law. If it is not destroyed, it remains. If one continue to read on Matthew 5, you will find that Jesus take all the effort to explain the law. If the law is going to pass away, why explain it?
Historically: None of the Jews which listen to the Sermon of mount is accusing that he has destroyed the law. In fact after the sermon of mount, many teachers of law keep on coming to Jesus to ask about the law. IF he did not support the Law, how come Jews come for his view on the law?
b. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18
Grammatically: you say that till heaven and earth pass have nothing to do with passing of the law, "all be fulfilled" shall mark the passing of the law. If Jesus never want to compare the life span of the law with the life span of heaven and earth, why mentioned it at the first place? Here, Jesus was comparing the lifespan of the law with heaven and earth. It is longer than the lifespan of the heaven and earth. Passing of the heaven and earth will not make the law pass away because it is still needed for final judgment. And after the new heaven and earth, we no longer need the law and it shall pass away because, spiritual bodies cannot sin. That is when the saying "it is done" and all is fulfilled (prophecy in Daniel and Revelation)
Historically: Again, none of the Jews accuse him of breaking the law.
c.Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19
Grammatically: you argue that the commandments here is not clear. It is very clear here. There are 2 type of commandments in the bible, the commandments of man and the commandments of God. Here, Jesus is referring to commandments of God, before and after. What he teaches in the sermon of mount, is the same teaching in the OT. There is no contradiction.
Historically: The Jews then understand commandments as the commandments of God. That's why Jesus is not accused of teaching a new commandments then.
d. Luke 24 "44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Grammar: You argue that must be fulfilled refers to the first coming. First, the OT prophecy regarding Jesus ended with the new heaven and earth. If Jesus ever want them to understand it as the first coming, why not say so? The following verses made it even clearer, "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem", which stated that repentance and remission of sins shall be preached to other nations is part of the prophecy he referred to. So this ended with the new heaven and earth.
Secondly, Jesus never mentioned, anything have pass away. That's why later, Paul and John both said that lawlessness is sin.
2. Covenant of Moses is not covenant of grace.
Covenant of Moses and new covenant are both covenant of grace. Because by work we shall died by the day we sin.
3. This bring us to a question, without law, where is the judgment. Without law, what is sin?
1. Paul did not said the law being made obsolete in the terms you have meant. He just said that it is impossible to gained salvation through the law because of our sinful nature. Therefore salvation cannot be gained through observation of the law. Because under the law of God, instant death is the only punishment (Adam and the fruit: death on the day he eats). Therefore the law is obsolete in this sense. Once we receive the salvation, Holy Spirit will urge us to obey the law, why, the law is the standard of righteousness of the LORD. This is sanctification. Sanctification is a prove of salvation. The law is the only way we can know what is the standard of holiness of the LORD.
2. You keep on saying all must be fulfilled regarding Christ. What the law say about Christ? Christ is the end of the law (Romans 10:4). The end of law is to justify those who observe it but seeing none of us can due to our sinful nature, Jesus heals this disease, He therefore fulfills the law for us. Does it means we can keep on sinning? No. (Again in Romans).
3. Sin-what is it: "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4
Sin is lawlessness, not only knowing what is right or wrong but knowing the standard of holiness of God.
4. Law and Gospel is related and not mutually exclusive. Observing the law does not exclude grace. The covenant of work - righteous by observing law is only given to Adam and Eve. We are all under covenant of grace, which is inclusive of the Law. Moses is under covenant of grace.
You: Hebrews: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Me: do you know you actually said that we must obey the law? "I will put My laws in their mind" that is the new covenant.
you: judgment and law is different. Judgment is God's moral.
me: In KJV and Hebrew bible, the same root word is used in Exodus 21:1 and Leviticus 18:5, when God is referring to the law.
you: Therefore, judgment is eternal but not the law.
me: therefore, I had not misunderstood Psalm 119:160 which point to eternal law.
you: THAT ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.
me: Luke 24 is to explain to people that the law predict the suffering of Christ, that's why Jesus must died. The law did not predict its own abolish. You predicted that, No where in the OT predict the Law passed away. So when Jesus said he fulfilled the law, he fulfilled everything including the eternalness of the law.
you: Matthew 5.
me:"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets;" That is equivalent in saying " I do not come to destroy the law" and it is also equivalent in saying " the law is not abolish with my coming"
Don''t translate word to word but translate in context.
If Jesus come to abolish the law, why then He explain the law to others. In the Sermon of the mount, he explain so many law, just said the law is abolish it is much easier to said so.
you: I am against you quoting book of Hebrew.
me: No, Book of Hebrew proved that the law is not destroyed. What is the New Covenant? "10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE." He said in the new covenant, that the laws shall be written in our mind, therefore, it is not abolished.
you: I keep on quoting OT.
Me: I quoted from NT also. Like 1 John which stated that sin is transgression of the law, Romans 2 which said we become righteous by obeying the law. I also quoted the Luke 16:17 which state we must obey the law. On the other hand, you are not quoting anything from the OT except indirectly as in Hebrews. Because there is nothing in the OT that said the law will be abolished.
I want you to tell u a story (maybe true). I think I heard it from a friend or I read somewhere.
There is a student in a theological school who is absent from class. So the teacher summoned him and ask him what happened. The student told the teacher Holy Spirit told him not to come to class. So the teacher can't do anything so pass the case to the headmaster. The next day, the student is kicked out. Reason? Holy Spirit told the headmaster to.
What is right or wrong? Chering ask a good question. How do you know it is the Spirit not your ego? Why the Holy Spirit told me to obey the law?
You said: I keep referring to the OT. And you said Jesus have fulfilled everything prophesied regarding already.
Me: Now, we must referred to the OT to see what is prophesied regarding Jesus. And prophecy regarding the second coming of Christ in Daniel had not been fulfilled. So, according to you, law had been done away because Christ had fulfilled every thing prophesied regarding him yet I showed you He had not. Therefore, the law had not done away.
Ok. In the NT, what it said about the law. 1 John 3:4 pointed out that transgression of the law is sin. It is also said that we become righteous through the law (Romans 2:13: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.).
You: Saying old covenant is with fault.
Me: God said his law is perfect. If law is the covenant then, God is contradictory. "Law is perfect at the same time, law is with fault."
You: The new Covenant did not include the law and you quoted Hebrew.
Me: In Hebrew it is said in New Covenant, "I will put my laws into their mind". Care to explain why God said this?
You: Moral principle and the law is different.
ME: The law is the moral principle of God. Because the law is righteous.
