I know love is all romanticized and stuff all the time. Don't get me wrong, I am big on romantics.
I just believe love is a choice. It is affected by one's emotions, thoughts, and experiences.
My reasoning is that God commands us in His Word, to love Him with all our heart, soul, and mind. And God never commands us to do things we are incapable of. God also commands us to love others as ourselves and love our enemies. The Bible speaks of christians that have turned back to the world, and how they have "left their first love".....being God.
These days you see a lot of divorces too of course, and sometimes you hear, "well, we just don't love eachother any more" as if it is out of their control.
They make me happy, so I love them? Happiness comes and goes and you can certainly love someone you are unhappy with.....look at the relationship between God and us.
Then of course there is the phrase "making love", but that's not love, that's lust.
It seems love is commonly defined in emotional and physical ways, but is truelly a matter of your mind and soul.
I just believe there must be a point in time where someone (consciously or unconsciously) adds up the emotions, experiences, and thoughts in their heads and decides they love the person.
What are your thoughts folks?
Hope you understand what I'm trying to say...didn't explain it as clearly as I had hoped.:winksmile:
Now my reason is, in the old testament, they were under the law, the law which Jesus Christ came and died to abolish the preeminence of. Those in the old testament were not saved by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They were to keep the law, and would go to Abraham's Bosom, in that no one can enter Heaven without the blood of Christ making them pure in God's eyes.
Now we are saved by faith through Christ Jesus and God has sealed His Spirit up inside us to keep us till the day of redemption.
In the Old Testament, I believe it was often said, that the Spirit of the Lord was "upon" someone, but now, that Spirit is "inside" us.
There is much said of love in the Old testament, incorrect AND correct love. My point is, not having the Holy Spirit inside them, they still loved rightly.
I think like Stegoodie said, the Holy Spirit now empowers us to have Godly love. Like I said before, Christ died for us while we were yet sinners and at enmity (enemies) with Him. I believe a love for people who hate you, is only truelly possible through God. Like going and handing out gospel tracks/door knocking. You have to love those people and want to show them the way to escape Hell to do that, and they often will ridicule you or slam their door in your face.
Thats my opinion anyhow.
Really had to think about it and look at my Bible a bit.
One other thing. There are unsaved people that do quite amazingly selfless and loving things.
Like the Bible says, we are to try the spirits, whether they be good or bad.
I believe just as Satan and his devils can influence Christians to do wrong, that God and His Angels can influence the unsaved to do right. They have to be able to, because God says that creation itself tells the natural man that there is a Creator, and God does pull at people's hearts and effect things in their lives to lead them to salvation.
I so do enjoy these little mental sparring matches that happen when we don't quite see eye to eye. Everyone gets to see a different viewpoint.
Anyway, I think Gentle Giant elaborates on my point quite well. In reading your last point Dream, I really agree with a lot of what you have to say and wonder if we are not simply seeing things from different perspectives. You see love as a condition, or if i might use a sort of synonym, a symptom of Christs indwelling. I simply see it as an action which is perfected (or at least improved) as a symptom of Christ's indwelling. I wonder if our disagreement is not laid to rest in one of the passages we discussed:
1 Corinthians 9 - 12: "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
Maybe what we know isn't complete. Maybe we are both right, maybe both wrong. God only knows. Whatever way we go about things, I think it's safe to say that love is important (even if the English language makes it confusing) right?
Proverbs 21:1 - The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
I agree, the Lord can influence those who don't believe, just as he worked through Esther to influence the King of Persia, and spare the lives of her people.
However, I believe in the end, if you don't have the Lord in you you are incapable of truly loving another human being. Yes, there is love on the earth, and people are married and given in marriage, however I take "God is love" quite literally, if God is love, what is satan? And if you don't belong to the Lord, you are in the power of the wicked one, are you not?
Correct, if you are not a child of God, you are a child of Satan.
I think it is our definitions of "love" thats causing issues. In the Old Testament even, Isaac told Esau to bring him venison, "such as I love". So even in the Bible, love has different applications. To love "truelly" I would say would be sacrificial love, loving someone 100% to their benefit and none of our own. I believe that you both are correct in that that type of love is solely through Christ. Can we attain it? No, no one but God can love perfectly, but we are to increase in it.
1 Thessalonians 3:12
And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
I think you guys (and gals ;) are all an incredible blessing!
Gntlgnt, Stegoodie,
Though I had no time to respond, when I read both of your responses this morning, I was all smiles.
I drove to work this morning thinking how cool it was to share thoughts with two brothers in Christ I'd never even met.
Stegoodie, I've enjoyed your thoughtfulness in many of your posts - including this one.
Gntlgnt, as new as you are to the forums, the sincerity in your relationship with God is already shining through what you have to say. Thank you both.
And Ms. Marvel,
There's a great possibility that God's using this forum in your life as a testing ground for whatever He has in store for you in the future....but you probably know that already ;)
