Good point Farmer, it was never ours to begin with, because it all belongs to Him or rather we belong to Him, but...
The Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Philippi, encouraging them to "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..." (Philippians 2:12). And so is laid down the personal responsibility of every person for reading, understanding and obeying the gospel.
dear farmer I see what you are trying to say but it is not what the word says! The word of God says we must repent of our sins!
Yes it is a gify of God but you must repent to recieve it! There is no way around repentence it is something you have to do!
Further moreJesus does not need saving, I am the one who needs salvation and if Jesus gives it to me as a gift doesnt that make it mine? I mean it was a gift right? so how could it be a gift to me and still belong to Jesus?
I see where you are coming from it is Christs life like paul said I am crucified with Christ never the less I live yet not I but Christ lives within me! So yeah I understand what you are saying and that part of it is true!
But there has to be repentence for salvation to become effective in someones life no repentence no salvation!
as far as works go I am so sick of even saying this becasue everyone just goes on as if I had never said it they keep spounting the same old stuff about people who think theri works save them so I will explain it again!
WORKS DO NOT SAVE!!! THEY ARE INCEDENTAL TO SALVATION!!
IF YOU REALLY LOVE JESUS THE WORKS WILL COME IN YOUR LIFE AUTOMATICLY
SO IT DOES NOT TAKE WORKS TO GET SAVED BUT IF YOU ARE SAVED YOU WILL HAVE WORKS
THEREFOR IF SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS THEY ARE SAVED HAS ZERO WORKS UNLESS THEY JUST GOT SAVED THEN I WOULD THINK THEY PROBABLY NEVER GOT SAVED BECAUSE THEY WOULD COME AUTOMATICLY IN A BELIEVERS LIFE IF THEY ARE TRULY SAVED!!!
No they are not what saves us rather they are the evidence that we are saved!
It isnt that hard to undertand an apple tree grows apples a peson who is saved by the blood of Jesus has fruit of the spirit and they are tirning from sin they are loving others they are letting their light shine!!
These are all good works!
No I will leave you with what the Lord Jesus said about this!
"He who loves me keeps MY comandments"
(dont get any plainer than that)
if you love HIM you will keep his commandments
so while your trying to make up your own sentimental sayings you are skipping over what the word says!
O wait what about this one?
work out YOUR salvation with fear and trembling!!
so your cute little sayings are sweet and I know you think they give God glory but they are contrary to what the bible says!
The Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Philippi, encouraging them to "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..." (Philippians 2:12). And so is laid down the personal responsibility of every person for reading, understanding and obeying the gospel.
Shalom...Thanks for this scripture.:applause:
@ POC
Who said it was OUR salvation? You need to ask the Savior to help you understand things.
Believers, We all know Jesus saves Us and the plan of Salvation was given by God Himself.
Stop Posting things that we say that are Not True ..like
The Farmer...George�s new name :rolleyes: shared ~
[[[ Repentance of sin ]]]
Confession of sin
Confession of trusting Yeshua
Good works
All of these happen AFTER a person has been trusting Yeshua to save them from the wrath of YHWH against their sin(s).
Any problems consult the Word of YHWH.
*** I know you dont Agree with this...however...Repentance of Sin does not come after and this is Why ***
Matthew 3:1-2 ~ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:11 ~ I ( John the Baptist ) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 4:17 ~ From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, [[[ Repent: ]]] for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
*** Jesus has Never said Be Baptized and Filled with the Holy Spirit and Trust in Me and Then REPENT�.Its not in that Order or Word of GOD that way�Any Problems consult ALL the WORD�Be Blessed�xo
dear farmer I see what you are trying to say but it is not what the word says! The word of God says we must repent of our sins!
Farmer
Mar 1:15 and saying, The time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent and believe in the gospel.
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 7:10 for the sorrow toward God reformation to salvation not to be repented of doth work, and the sorrow of the world doth work death,
Yes it is a gify of God but you must repent to recieve it! There is no way around repentence it is something you have to do!
My question to you.
Are you REPENTING TOWARDS YHWH or are you Repenting awya fro sin.
What direction do the above Scriptures say the direction of repentance is to be.
Elisha
Further moreJesus does not need saving, I am the one who needs salvation and if Jesus gives it to me as a gift doesnt that make it mine? I mean it was a gift right? so how could it be a gift to me and still belong to Jesus?
I see where you are coming from it is Christs life like paul said I am crucified with Christ never the less I live yet not I but Christ lives within me! So yeah I understand what you are saying and that part of it is true!
Elisha
But there has to be repentence for salvation to become effective in someones life no repentence no salvation!
The Farmer
Yes there is repentance,but it is NEVER repentance from sin.
A person is to be REPENTING of their UNBELIEF towards YHWH.
Mar 1:15 and saying, The time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent and believe in the gospel.
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 7:10 for the sorrow toward God reformation to salvation not to be repented of doth work, and the sorrow of the world doth work death,
elisha
as far as works go I am so sick of even saying this becasue everyone just goes on as if I had never said it they keep spounting the same old stuff about people who think theri works save them so I will explain it again!
WORKS DO NOT SAVE!!! THEY ARE INCEDENTAL TO SALVATION!!
IF YOU REALLY LOVE JESUS THE WORKS WILL COME IN YOUR LIFE AUTOMATICLY
SO IT DOES NOT TAKE WORKS TO GET SAVED BUT IF YOU ARE SAVED YOU WILL HAVE WORKS
THEREFOR IF SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS THEY ARE SAVED HAS ZERO WORKS UNLESS THEY JUST GOT SAVED THEN I WOULD THINK THEY PROBABLY NEVER GOT SAVED BECAUSE THEY WOULD COME AUTOMATICLY IN A BELIEVERS LIFE IF THEY ARE TRULY SAVED!!!
No they are not what saves us rather they are the evidence that we are saved!
It isnt that hard to undertand an apple tree grows apples a peson who is saved by the blood of Jesus has fruit of the spirit and they are tirning from sin they are loving others they are letting their light shine!!
These are all good works!
No I will leave you with what the Lord Jesus said about this!
elisha
"He who loves me keeps MY comandments"
(dont get any plainer than that)
if you love HIM you will keep his commandments
The Farmer
elisha,you and a host of people when they read the scripture you posted 'John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments'.
People read this as saying 'IF you love me YOU WILL OBEY my commandments.
The problem is in the persons understanding this Scripture.
Let us look at the English word KEEP,for in the Greek language of the Scripture the wording DOES NOT necessarliy imply OBEDIENCE....
continue (1), guard (1), guards (1), heed (2), heeds (1), held in custody (1), keep (27), keep watch over (1), keeping (1), keeping guard over (1), keeps (9), kept (12), kept in custody (3), observe (3), preserve (1), preserved (1), reserved (4), watching over (1).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright � 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org
hold fast, keep
From teros (a watch; perhaps akin to theoreo); to guard (from loss or injury, properly, by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from phulasso, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from koustodia, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), i.e. To note (a prophecy; figuratively, to fulfil a command); by implication, to detain (in custody; figuratively, to maintain); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried); by extension, to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively, to keep unmarried) -- hold fast, keep(- er), (pre-, re-)serve, watch.
Thayers
τηρέω
tēreō
Thayer Definition:
1) to attend to carefully, take care of
1a) to guard
1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is
1c) to observe
1d) to reserve: to undergo something
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from teros (a watch, perhaps akin to G2334)
G2334
θεωρέω
theōreō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be a spectator, look at, behold
1a) to view attentively, take a view of, survey
1a1) to view mentally, consider
2) to see
2a) to perceive with the eyes, to enjoy the presence of one
2b) to discern, descry
2c) to ascertain, find out by seeing
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer�s/Strong�s Number: from a derivative of G2300 (perhaps by add. of G3708)
elisha
so while your trying to make up your own sentimental sayings you are skipping over what the word says!
The Farmer
Since when does the Word of YHWH become sentimental sayings?
elisha
O wait what about this one?
work out YOUR salvation with fear and trembling!!
The Farmer
How about we fiinsh this Scripture so that the real TRUTH would be KNOWN.
Php 2:12 So, then, my beloved, even as you always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, cultivate your salvation with fear and trembling,
Php 2:13 for it is God who is working in you both to will and to work for the sake of His good pleasure.
The Holy SPirit of Yeshua is the one ACTUALLY doing the Work in you and through you.
You and i are just recipients of the power and Grace of YHWH
These have no origins in YHWH not man.
elisha
so your cute little sayings are sweet and I know you think they give God glory but they are contrary to what the bible says
The farmer
I have posted the correct Scriptures concerning this matter.
The understanding of the responses is of the Holy Spirit.
Yes there is repentance, but it is NEVER repentance from sin.
*** Ummmm�.:rolleyes:...remember to Search ALL the Scriptures�It is ALWAYS about REPENTANCE of SIN...First...
Acts 2:38 ~ Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ [[[ for the remission of " sins, " ]]] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 3:19 ~ [[[ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your ( " sins " may be blotted out, ) when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. ]]]
All of these happen AFTER a person has been trusting Yeshua to save them from the wrath of YHWH against their sin(s).
Any problems consult the Word of YHWH.
jude
*** I know you dont Agree with this...however...Repentance of Sin does not come after and this is Why ***
jude
Matthew 3:1-2 ~ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The Farmer
First the Scripture you have posted is John with the people of Israel.
John is going before Yeshua according to the Prophecy.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him who cries in the wilderness: Prepare the way of Jehovah; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Mal 3:1 Behold, I am sending My messenger, and He will clear the way before Me. And the Lord whom you are seeking shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Angel of the Covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He comes, says Jehovah of Hosts.
Second,John is the LAST Old Covenant Prophet,notice the repentance he proclaims is a repentance concerning the Kingship Kingdom of GOD.
This Scripture does not seem to be talking about fruit of the spirit of YHWH,but rather this is a demand to those which were trusting in their lineage to Abrahem,instead of trusting YHWH to save them.
Mat 3:8 Therefore, bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.
Mat 3:8 Therefore, bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.
jude
Mat 3:11 ~ I ( John the Baptist ) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Farmer
John did not believe that he was even worthy to have the position of a household slave that would remove and wash the feet of strangers entering his maters house.
How much less am i,yet Yeshua has clothed me in his rigtheouness,and has put a ring on my finger and shoes on my feet.
Slaves do not where such apparel,but sons of the Father do.
jude
Mat 4:17 ~ From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, [[[ Repent: ]]] for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Farmer
Jude,you are reading into this Scripture that a person has to REPENT of sin.
Actually Yeshua is saying to REPENT towards their understanding of the Kingship / Kingdom of YHWH.
*** Jesus has Never said Be Baptized and Filled with the Holy Spirit and Trust in Me and Then REPENT�.Its not in that Order or Word of GOD that way�Any Problems consult ALL the WORD�Be Blessed�xo
Farmer
Yes that is correct
First a person is drawn by YHWH to Yeshua.
Yeshua regenerates the person.
The Holy Spirit convicts the person.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
This is where REPENTANCE BEGINS.
Repenting of UNBELIEF towards Yeshua,not repentance of sin.
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
YHWH bestows saving faith to the person.
The person trusts Yeshua to save them from the WRATH of YHWH against their sin(s).
The person is sealed with the Holy Spirit,and the Holy SPirit resides within this person.
REPENTANCE of sin happens as the Holy SPirit brings conviction to this person.
