To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellow-men are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity: is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated.
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
To me, this verse makes it very clear that salvation was made available for every man, even much more than the death that was passed to every man through sin. I've got some more if you'd want to take a look at those as well. Jesus will be satisfied with his bride.
How can any individual be dissapointed with His bride? Especially Christ......
The reality that anyone finds salvation in Christ given our bent toward rebellion is a blessing from God.
God's unwillingness that any should perish but all come to salvation just speakes of His great Love for His creation. His heart toward us is beyound our comprehention.
It's it impossible in the context to say that Jesus sacrifice led to justification and life for all those who are in Him? Because it obviously didn't lead to justification for every single person. Unless you are universalist, I do not believe the verses you posted shuts the door on the doctrine of particular redemption.
"It's it impossible in the context to say that Jesus sacrifice led to justification and life for all those who are in Him? Because it obviously didn't lead to justification for every single person. Unless you are universalist, I do not believe the verses you posted shuts the door on the doctrine of particular redemption."
My point was just that Jesus died to bring salvation to all mankind, not that it leads to salvation for every person. The parables of Jesus are great examples of this, especially the parable of the sower.
Matthew 13
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Here's some others to look over.
John 17:2
Thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 6:37
"All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in nowise cast out."
1 Timothy 2
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son."
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Ezekiel 33:11
11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
John 12:32
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
Acts 17:30
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Luke 2:10
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
John 4:42
42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1 Tim 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Acts 2:21:
"And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 4:10:
"We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Romans 2:9-11
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Romans 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
But I am asking if it's possible to read it as, "all who were in adam, and all who are in Christ". Is that impossible from the context? The others verses you gave don't make this reading impossible.
I'm sure you can infer what you believe if you choose to, in the same way that I may be doing, but I would caution you to make sure and read the scripture without preconceived ideas weighing in too much. In my opinion, makes it clear that since death came to all men, much more does life come to all men through Christ, and I think the rest of the verses I shared support that God does not show partiality and that he sent his son to die for every single human.
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and **not for ours only**, but also **for the sins of the whole world**.
Acts 17:30
26 And hath made of **one blood all nations of men** for to dwell on **all the face of the earth**, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;27 **That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him**, though he be not far from every one of us:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now **commandeth all men every where to repent**:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath **given assurance unto all men**, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
I find that inconsistent because we know that life has not come to all men. So it seems very reasonable to me in light of the rest of scripture to say that death came to all those in Adam and life to all those in Christ. Unless someone is a Universalist.
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
It says that sin came through Adam, and sin did come through Adam, to ALL men. We have all sinned. And conversely, the free gift is sufficient for all men. The fundamental difference is that I think we have to believe to be saved, and you believe that we're saved because God chose us. I don't predicate my belief on the idea that it can't be true because every man has not been given life automatically, because I think that each individual must believe to be given life. Maybe this difference is too deep to really discus what we're talking about right now.
