You asked: "My question is, was her it her own humble persistence and faith that allowed Jesus to heal this woman's daughter or was grace given first to allow this woman to know who Jesus really was that she may ask this blessing from him?"
Please ignore the other member who spoke in error and said:"It is Faith Then Grace, that is how the kingdom of God operates on the earth."
Grace precedes faith -- this is the order.
(2Tim 1:9 [KJB:PCE])
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
When was grace given to the Elect? Before the world began. Why did he give grace to his Elect? For his own purpose. This happens in eternity before time.
(Rom 10:17 [KJB:PCE])
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
When does faith come to the Elect? When they hear (understand) the Word of God. This happens in time (history)
(Rom 5:2 [KJB:PCE])
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Read it -- We (the elect) have access into this grace (the grace given to us in eternity) by faith (which is the appointed means in time)
(Eph 2:8 [KJB:PCE])
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Read it -- We (the elect) are saved by grace (the grace given to us in eternity as a gift from God) through faith (which is the appointed means in time)
Injecting the word elect into the verses does not make it true.
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Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I appreciate the considerate response IWA, thanks... but the scripture I had posted was from Matt 15:21-28 concerning the faith of the Canaanite woman and this was what I'd hoped to discuss.
This woman was a non jewish pagan, yet she yet here she at the feet of Jesus crying out "have mercy on me" "help me Lord!" in distress because her daughter is possessed by a demon. No doubt having heard of the many great miracles and healing through Jesus in those days and believing he would heal her child.
(Matthew 15:21-28 ESV
21]�And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon.
[22]�And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, �Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.�
[23]�But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, �Send her away, for she is crying out after us.�
[24]�He answered, �I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.�
[25]�But she came and knelt before him, saying, �Lord, help me.� [26]�And he answered, �It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.�
[27]�She said, �Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.�
[28]�Then Jesus answered her, �O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.� And her daughter was healed instantly.
In thinking about the matter of whether it's (grace then faith) or the (faith then grace) I'm not so sure it's either... The verse from Eph. 2:8 almost seems to suggest that they both come hand in hand, not one before the other... and both are the gift of God and not something we can do of our self. Salvation is secured "by grace through faith"
I'm just pondering here, not disputing anything... it's very interesting to think about, though I am not convinced whether we know the answer to this or not of who is wrong and who is right that it is a deal breaker for salvation... so please don't anyone take offense...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Shared ~ Read it -- We (the elect) are saved by grace (the grace given to us in eternity as a gift from God) through faith (which is the appointed means in time)
*** My Bible doesn't say what you just said...it says...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
*** Its purty straight forward and that "ye" is este G2075
1."you are" (second person plural of 'to be')
from eimi G1510
1.to be, to exist, to happen, to be present
*** neither of these words means "WE" or "Elect" or what Elect means bachiyr H972
1.chosen, choice one, chosen one, elect (of God)
*** Its not a wise thing to squish words into the text and this why I cant except what this person shares here as sound doctrine because it is not...XO
So sorry to disappoint you IWA...BUT the words you refer to do not mean Elect..Any one you read a Strongs or Lexicon can verify this...we don't take a persons word for it especially when they have proven they are in error...So once again...
Ya...its up for discussion...
Eph 2:8 [KJB:PCE])
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Shared ~ Read it -- We (the elect) are saved by grace (the grace given to us in eternity as a gift from God) through faith (which is the appointed means in time)
*** My Bible doesn't say what you just said...it says...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
*** Its purty straight forward and that "ye" is este G2075
1."you are" (second person plural of 'to be')
from eimi G1510
1.to be, to exist, to happen, to be present
*** neither of these words means "WE" or "Elect" or what Elect means bachiyr H972
1.chosen, choice one, chosen one, elect (of God)
*** Its not a wise thing to squish words into the text and this why I cant except what this person shares here as sound doctrine because it is not...XO
Who is this entire book of Ephesians written to? Ah, yes ---
Vs 1. - to the saints.
Vs 4 - to the chosen (those chosen before the foundation of the earth) G1586 eklegomai (ek-leg'-om-ai) v. choose (out), chosen
Vs 5 to those predestined to adoption by Jesus Christ
Vs. 6 - the beloved
Vs. 11 - the predestined
This is the eklektos!!!! This is the "Ye"
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heavena, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trustedb in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
*** Calling me or any women here vain is so...well...its just so YOU...:ROFL:...
If I may ask...Do you ever get your head Un-Wrapped around the word Elect and get down into Studying the actual Hebrew word in the Holy Scriptures ???...XO
Revelation 4:11�Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
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God created everyone...why did He create them? �for His pleasure.
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Romans 14:11-12�For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12�So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
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All may not accept or recognize God for who He is while living on earth; however, when they enter eternity, they will. �For many it will be too late, they will spend eternity in Hell.
It appears from Scripture, that every person was predestined to worship God...and they will!
