Thread: Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
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Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 11 Sep, 2012 01:57 PM
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Rom 16:17
This verse clearly illustrates the following principles:
1. A person who teaches/preaches contrary to Biblical doctrines is one who causes division and offenses.
2. We are to mark them and avoid them.
I would like to assert that the following additional principle can also be validly deduced from this passage:
3. We should also mark and avoid any person who would promote or defend a person who is guilty of teaching/preaching contrary to Biblical doctrines. Why? because in doing so, they are also guilty of causing divisions and offenses.
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 05:26 PM
sounds like a rather hard core and unloving attitude lacking in Grace. My question, is how do you remove the marks you put on someone who disagrees with your understanding of the Word (Law). Is not the justification for shunning and marking another, in this way, meant to be an act of mercy? And bring them to repentance? The bible says there will be differences among you. Make sure "YOUR" truth is not just an honest difference of opinion.:waving:
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 06:21 PM
Shep,
Who exactly is it that you are accusing of being "hardcore, unloving, and lacking in grace" ? the Apostle Paul? the Holy Spirit through Paul? or me for posting what the Holy Spirit told us through Paul?
You asked "Is not the justification for shunning and marking another, in this way, meant to be an act of mercy? And bring them to repentance?"
Is it? Perhaps. These verses don't clearly state the justification. Feel free to make your case with scripture. I am interested in hearing what the Bible has to say on the matter.
You ask: "how do you remove the marks you put on someone who disagrees with your understanding of the Word (Law)."
First, I would ask you. How many different "understandings of the Word" do you believe there are?
Do you believe that one who continues to promote false doctrines is the victim since they are marked and avoided? And what about the rights of those whom they victimize with their false doctrines? Should there be no protection or justice for them? You speak as though you are almost sympathetic to false teachers. Am I misunderstanding you?
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 06:35 PM
What are we to do from there? I would say that we are to keep loving the people Paul is talking about, which still means witnessing to them. Here's the immediate context of what you posted (Romans 16:17-18):
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
I think that Paul is speaking of those who cause divisions and offences habitually and on purpose, whose hearts do not belong to Jesus from the start. (I'll admit here, in particular, I may very well be wrong. He might mean even all those who, with some biblical evidence, favour one side of a contentious issue over another. He might mean something else.) I shouldn't dare to call such a one a brother or sister in Christ, nor suggest they teach about God among Christians. But we are to love even our enemies (Matthew 5:44), and finding the balance there is difficult.
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 07:28 PM
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. 2 Thess.3:14-15
I've looked at multiple commentaries on this tonight and I found this quote which I felt best summed this up. This is from John Gill's commentary:
"The note here is a black mark of excommunication; lay him under censure, exclude him from your communion, put a brand upon him as a scabbed sheep, and separate him from the flock; and so the Syriac version renders it, "let him be separated from you"
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 07:44 PM
The post immediately above this post is in response to Shep's question: "is not the justification for shunning and marking another, in this way, meant to be an act of mercy? And bring them to repentance? "
This was as close as I could come to an answer after examining an unrelated passage.
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 10:37 PM
The excommunication example from 1 Cor 5, a man is turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. My point is God's design in restoring the man in 2 Cor 2:6-8,
"This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him."
The difference of being overtaken in a fault vs preaching false doctrines is a fine line. Pauls condemnation was towards the religion of the Jews that are anti Jesus Christ much like Jews today that deny Jesus is the Christ. Some of the Catholic doctrines also, have proved over the years to be false.
Excommunication would be a last resort for the Matt. 18 process of removing someone from fellowship. But it should not violate the spirit of Acts 15 which describes what new non Jewish believers should observe. :purpleangel:
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 12 Sep, 2012 11:26 PM
Thanks for the contribution. This thread really was not designed to be an all inclusive presentation on ecclesiastical discipline. Nor can the entirety of the matter be summed up in what you or I have just offered.
In the end, you seem to agree on the punishment that is to be meted out. And I agree that restoration to fellowship is possible upon repentance.
Those Who Teach Contrary to the Word and Those Who Defend Them
Posted : 14 Nov, 2012 08:33 PM
Sorry for the late reply.
Do I think there is anything strictly unbiblical in this thread? Not from a legalistic standpoint, but I think the heart and spirit of God is being missed in place of a rule-enforcing totalitarian Christianity that Jesus fought vigorously against in his day.
When I meant by the use of the word 'trivial' is not to dismiss the importance of the issue, but to emphasize how easy it is to do.
Anybody can point a finger at anybody else who disagrees with them and make the claim that they are a false teacher. Heck, even the DEVIL HIMSELF quoted scripture. Quoting scripture isn't even close to proving one's point true, not even close. Jesus proved that in his confrontation with the Devil, that the heart of God must be sought after even more than the word of God (though we find most of the heart of God through his word).
My comment was simply to caution overzealous and self-righteous Christians who perhaps are too trigger-happy to 'shoot' at those they perceive as 'false prophets' when in fact they themselves could simply be in an erroneous belief. I am not here to make any specific decisions on specific topics, but just to keep in mind how hypocrisy (which is cursing the modern church) occurs.
As I said before, it's often the well-intentioned who err in hypocrisy. We all have our sins and hurdles to deal with, let us always put the heart of God much higher than the law, as Jesus showed us when he spared the life of the adulterer whom he had every legal right to stone but chose to ignore the law for a higher and better purpose.
If it makes this comment seem any more personal, I have a lot of personal experience in this area. It's easy for many people, myself above many, to think and feel abstractly about biblical principles and judge other's ideas as false or inaccurate and then in practice fail miserably.
If you ask me, humility is without a doubt the most underrated of the virtues (once I need work on!)...but now I am getting quite off track so....
