Author	Thread: The 'Spock' Gospel
Admin	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 19 Dec, 2012 06:11 AM Why do people think for something to be true it has to be logical? I think the 5 point Calvinist is the worst offender and a good example of what I'm speaking of. We are all individuals and God treats us accordingly. We are creations of God who can do what he pleases with what he created; answering to no one and judged by no one. The Gospel is not about logic it is about relationship and relationships vary from person to person; God is unchanging however we are not, nor are we all the same. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 20 Dec, 2012 01:29 PM Colossians 2:1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments. 5 For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ. Alive in Christ 6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. 8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Let No One Disqualify You 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. 20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations-- 21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. Mark says : dljrn04: "Colossians 2 :13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses." I believe this is talking about being slain by the law and found guilty. Paul talks about being alive before the knowledge of the law, but when the law was brought before him, sin was made apparent and he was rightly labeled as guilty. The law slayed him and made him dead in trespasses. I say: I am sorry you may want to read the whole chapter. Paul is encouraging believers in Laodicea of their salvation. The law makes us aware of sin. We are dead in our sin, God redeemed us, and brought us to life through redemption. :applause: Thank you God my redemption is complete in Christ. :yay: Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 20 Dec, 2012 10:19 PM What's wrong with logic? Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 20 Dec, 2012 10:22 PM Calvinist logic leads beyond scripture? Can you logically defend that statement? Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 20 Dec, 2012 10:24 PM " but it almost seems like circular reasoning" If the reason was outside of scripture, then maybe...however I fail to see how it's circular reasoning for those who get this belief from scripture. Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 20 Dec, 2012 10:35 PM "all hangs or falls on the 1st point �T" This is too simplistic a statement. The "T" hangs on the "U" as well. We know clearly there is T because we have the "U". Please show how Job refutes the reformed view. While you are at it, please show where he was a pagan. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 05:53 AM " but it almost seems like circular reasoning" It seems like circular reasoning because every principle rests on the other, and when conflicting evidence shows up to refute or call into question one view, the other views are called in, all the way back to the concept of total depravity. Example: Unlimited Atonement: "Jesus died for all men everywhere, isn't willing that any should perish, and not only for the believers, but for the whole world. Calls every sinner to repent, commands every sinner to repent, spreads his word everywhere, gives to all a measure of faith, lifts up his son to draw the whole world as a ransom for all, that all men may be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. Wishes to gather together all his children as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, for God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved." TULIP: That can't be true, because of Unconditional Election. Jesus wouldn't have wasted his sacrifice on people he didn't mean to save, and there has to be Unconditional Election, because of Total Depravity, etc. I've had quite a few discussions with people who believe in TULIP, and that is always how it seems to go. And I've even nailed a couple people down by trapping them in their own beliefs to something they don't even really believe or something that makes God the author of sin, but then they wash it away into a mystery that we can't understand, which makes it hard to continue the conversation. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 09:44 AM But it ultimate rests on scripture. You find it circular that they line up and rest on each other but that misses the point. Lots of things rest on each other but are true. If something appears to be circular reasoning, but is true...then what is the problem? Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 10:26 AM "Dljrn04 : "If we are not sinners, why do we need a savior?" . Did I ever, ever say or even imply that? No Shame on you Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 10:30 AM Lettuismind2 : "Faith in God is not excusive to one " Logic - scripture" or the other " emotion - relationship"." . IMHO: Emotion is a very small part of a real relationship. Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 10:34 AM DontHitThatMark: " Each of those 5 points are interdependent, but it almost seems like circular reasoning, and I wouldn't say it's very logically planned outside of it's own closed system. " . Exactly! It is a closed system and the logic only works within that system; I agree whole heartily. Post Reply

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