It's been about a year since I've visited this forum and not much has changed.. Most notably, I see the Calvinists are still mean spirited. Never could understand that. And I have yet to see a Calvinist in this forum present himself otherwise.
Accusations continue to be flung toward those who don't hold to the same belief system.. some totally unfounded such as being accused of serving a God, ie "an impotent god", other than the God of those who hold to Calvinism, even though Paul tells us, as Believers, that there is "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL." ...and then some to the point of questioning the salvation of those Believer's, who, by default, are labeled "Arminian" for not being "Calvinist", accusing them of having "hearts of stone", even though Peter tells us, as Believers, that God, who knows our hearts, purifies our hearts by faith.
Reading about the subject of "pride" here, I think the following statement is a form of pride in itself...
"The arguments that oppose these Reformed/Calvinist men here on the CDFF Biblical forum come from a group who between them do not have a single pastoral credential or earned degree in the study of theology."
One can boast all they want about their education and those who come to the same conclusion in study, but if that's what you fall on as the guide to judge whether a person is prideful when they disagree with you, then your standards are off base. Heck, Einstein was a genius without education.. God judges the hearts of men... not by the amount of years they spend in a university nor by the degrees to which they hold, but by their obedience to Him. Neither is He going to judge us for not following those who have a higher education. Pride is never seen as a good thing in the Bible, and as far as I know it is associated with those not walking with the Lord. Not only are you judging a person based on what you think is pride in them, and according to your standard of education, but you are also judging their relationship with Christ because of it. And you base it on their lack of education, spelling and grammar errors, and disagreement between you and your educated Calvinist list. And because of that disagreement, this somehow proves to you that your "...point has now been formally demonstrated and proven by the responses."
I think what I find most sad since reading some of these threads so far is the following statement...
"...the poor Arminian has no gospel � no good news at all. His gospel is a sham and a shame and leaves a poor sinner hopeless and helpless."
I do not consider myself an Arminian; that is your claim to those who disagree with Calvinism. But I can tell you that as a Born-Again Believer in Christ, I have a Gospel.. I have Good News, and neither of those "leaves a poor sinner hopeless and helpless." My Gospel is the gospel of Christ... the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes. To be truthful, I find it more hopeless to tell the poor sinner that while Christ died for the ungodly, He might not have died for him; that he may not have the opportunity for eternal life, thereby condemning him to eternal damnation. After all, that is what Calvinism teaches and its followers believe. Where is the good news in that? You cannot preach certain Scriptures without making yourself a liar based on your beliefs because those Scriptures are not intended for the unelect.. An example would be... "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." The Calvinist cannot, with all honesty preach that verse to the hopeless sinner and without doubt believe it applies to him, because he can't know whether that hopeless sinner is one of the elect, one of those sinners that Christ came into the world to save. Where is the Gospel of salvation in that? Where is the assurance of what you're preaching? Where is the assurance for the poor hopeless and helpless sinner found in your Gospel and Good News?
2 Peter 1:5-11: Make every effort to add to you faith {A FREE GIFT} goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and **LOVE**. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective...and will make your calling and election sure...and you will receive a *RICH WELCOME* into our Eternal Kingdom of Jesus Christ!
By saying REWARDS are not *EARNED* by the saints contradicts over 50 passages from the inspired Words of God and removes one of the most important incentives for obeying all of the NT commands with love with the hope countless eternal *REWARDS* for faithful and loving service!!
Daniel 12:3: Those who impart wisdom {NIV} will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness. like the stars for ever and ever!
Revelation 2:18; 3:21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes I will give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it....And I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
Jesus says, "At the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne...Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for My sake will receive 100 times as much !!" Matthew 19:28,29
SALVATION IS 100% FREE BUT HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED:
Hebrews 11:1,6: Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see....And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He **REWARDS** those who earnestly seek Him!!
Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly , as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!.
Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, �Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!�
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, �The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and THEN He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!�
2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives , he will receive his **REWARD**. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Colossians 3:23-25: Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, siince you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a **REWARD**. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.
How to Win Heavenly CROWNS:
I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a **CROWN that will not last; but we do it to get a **CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER! Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly. I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize!
2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be **REWARDED** fully!. Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, �I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your **CROWN!�
2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the **CROWN of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge,will award to me on that day�and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing!
The **CROWN of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution:
James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the **CROWN OF LIFE that God has promised to those who **LOVE** Him!
Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, �Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE!�
Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, �Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, beacuase great is your **REWARD** in heaven!�
Hebrews 10:32-36: Remember those earlier days after you had received the Light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of sufferin. Sometimes you were publicaly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly **REWARDED**. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you receive what He has promised!
We know Jesus referrs to those who do all kind of works in His name and even call Him Lord and He responds to them.... depart from me worker of iniquity, I never knew you.
They have to be some of the most powerful words coming from Jesus mouth.
The thing is......I dont remember hearning any calvinist referring to Jesus. It seems they refer to men and the old testiment but where is Jesus?
Is Jesus some weakling to them? Because He is the expression of Gods love?
I have heard mockery of love coming from them and could this be the meaning of Jesus words?
I have heard the twisting of the meaninng of love coming from them giving them the right to basically dismiss anyone and give it to give anyone they want a biblical bashing.
It all comes down to Love........
Love , love , love and that aint no Beetles song.
Learn love and learn God because God is Love. Miss love and miss God because God is love.
Love is the evidence of our knowing of God and His knowing of we little ones.
I am so convinced the more mature we become the simpler our message becomes because it comes down to one thing.......The thing we are commanded, love
The thing is......I dont remember hearning any calvinist referring to Jesus. It seems they refer to men and the old testiment but where is Jesus?
*** Bingo!!!!....Ding...Ding...Ding...Praise the LORD Almighty...Something has been bothering you Michael about all this Calvinist stuff...and lo and behold...the Comforter has show up and...
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
JESUS....:yay:....:dancingp:....:bouncy:...
Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, �All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!�
Ephesians 4:11-16: It was He {Jesus} who gives some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.... Speakig the Truth in **LOVE**, we will in all things grow up into Him, who is the Head, that is Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament grows and builds itself up in **LOVE**, as each part does its work!
2 Timothy 3:16; 4:2: All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God my be thoroughly equipped for every good work...**PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction!
I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} **IF** we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But **IF** anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him!
Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!
James 1:22: Do not merely listen to the Word, and so deceive yourselves. **DO WHAT IT SAYS*...But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, *BUT DOING IT*--he will be blessed in what he does!!
READ GOD'S WORD DAILY AND THEN DO WHAT IT SAYS!!
Psalm 119 has 176 verses praising the Word of God. The Old Testament had 613 laws and the New Covenant of Jesus and His love has about 400 commands of LOVE which Psalm 119 also applies to. Some of my favorite verses is Psalm 119 are:
119:105: Your Word is a Lamp to my feet and a Light for my path.
119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.
119:164: Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous laws.
119:169: Give me understanding according to your Word.
119:2: Blessed are those who keep His statues and seek Him with all your heart.
119:11: I have hidden your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You.
Deuteronomy 4:2: God says, "Do not *ADD* to what I command you and do not *SUBTRACT* from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"
Deut 18:17-19: The Lord says, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them evereything I command Him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I Myself will call Him to account."
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "If anyone loves Me, He will obey My teaching. My Father will love Him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me will not obey My teaching.
Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this Book: If anyone *ADDS* anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."
I Peter 1:23-25: You have been born again.. through the Living and Enduring Word of God. All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the Word that was preached to you.
As I said... not much has changed. The following describes very well the attitude of the Calvinists and how they present themselves in this forum-
"...I would like to speak with regards to Calvinism (since I am a Calvinist). There are many out there who call themselves Calvinists who make very bad Calvinists. In other words, the way they portray their own system lacks understanding and perspective concerning the system.
When I am around some Calvinists, I often want to become an Arminian! There are many reasons I say this, but first and foremost is that many Calvinists lack balance. They act as if the doctrines of grace are the only issues in theology. It does not matter what you are talking about, with these people it somehow always turns into a discussion about the importance of Calvinism. Further, they will strongly demean any who disagrees with Calvinism to the point where they deny them the grace that is so irresistible in their own system. In other words, there are many Calvinists who act like Calvinism is the central core of the Gospel. With this attitude of smugness, arrogance, and disrespect demonstrated by so many, who would want to be a Calvinist?" ~ C Michael Patton
I would say that it's God's will that we cannot know if we're elect. It would only give us something to boast about over others, obviously. That's the core issue I have with "reformed" theology. They say boasting is a sin, but claiming election and claiming to know who else is elected is something that is CONSTANTLY being boasted about and held over everyone else. I cannot boast because of faith, because I know every man can have faith, and because I know that my faith would not exist without God convicting me of the truth in the first place. However, claiming that I'm one of the special "elected" is the same condition that the Jewish pharisees were holding over the gentiles. "You are not of Abraham's seed, so you are lost". It's pure presumption, and it's not provable from the scriptures or from a personal experience, only by fruit.
Acts 10
11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Romans 11
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
