Now look that there is subordination in the Godhead:
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ�s at His coming.
24 Then comes the END, when He (the SON of GOD) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For �He has put all things under His feet.� But when He says �all things are put under Him,� it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor 15
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the FORM of GOD, did not consider it robbery to be EQUAL with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (this is one of the names of the SON of God), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are ONE.
1 John 5
The Father Revealed in the SON of GOD
7 �If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.�
8 Philip said to Him, �Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.�
9 Jesus said to him, �Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, �Show us the Father�? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. John 14
Prophet, I understand that God is greater than Jesus, but they are both still God, and both are still the most powerful beings in the universe, and in essence, you are still believing that Jesus, who is God, needs help from a created being. I'm actually surprised that you didn't reject that argument entirely, instead you tried to defend it.
Jesus is the one that people call on for help, Jesus is the leader of the hosts of Heaven, Jesus is God and He doesn't need help from a created being. Your interpretation makes God weak. My interpretation makes God more powerful and more involved in His own work. Which one sounds biblical? If you would take a minute to think about it, set aside your preconceived notions, and really look at what this concept means, you might discover a vast new field of truth, which is what the disciples discovered after Jesus explained to them how involved He was in the Old Testament. Jesus was the one who appeared to Joshua, Jesus was the one who helped Gabriel with the prince of persia, Jesus was the one who contended with the Devil for the body of Moses, Jesus is Daniel's Prince, Jesus stands for us.
You've really latched on to this chapter like it's your last bastion of defense, and since you can't seem to grasp the idea of a vision, then take a look at all the other places where Michael is doing Jesus's job.
"And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"
"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
"When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, �Are you for us, or for our adversaries?� And he said, �No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.� And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, �What does my lord say to his servant?� And the commander of the Lord's army said to Joshua, �Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.� And Joshua did so."
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."
"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,"
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,"
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, that great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:"
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"
"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince."
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
"And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
"Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God."
"But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall."
Jesus is the chief of the angels. Jesus is the great prince, first of the chief princes. Jesus is the leader of the hosts of heaven. Jesus is the greatest messenger. Jesus is God.
Michael the archangel is translated as "The greatest messenger who is as God."
So, including all those other verses, apart from saying that Jesus/God needs help from a created being to deal with a man, you're also saying that there is another being that stands for us. That there is another being that leads the host of heaven into battle. That there is another being who disputes and rebukes the Satan. That an angel's voice is what resurrects the dead instead of the voice of Christ. I'd like to know how you reconcile all of those verses. I just go with the obvious, that Michael was simply another name for Christ before He was born as "Emmanuel".
His divine nature, called by one name ->GOD, resurrected Him as He predicted that.
This God Jesus is coming back to Israel to defend the Israeli people when Muslims and Iran soon will attack Israel.
Almost everyday and every night I was looking at my Israel sitting at the beach..incredible beautiful place called the HOLY Land because the HOLY Jewish people live there...The people are HOLY because the HOLY God always lived AMONG them! He chose this GREAT nation to manifest Himself to the world.
The perfect Jewish language is the language of my God Jesus!
Adam and Eve spoke in this language with the God of Israel....
I belong to this GREAT nation! I am a Jew.
The Creator of the universe came to HIS OWN people! They did NOT accept Him!
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. John 1:10
11 He came to His own (JEWS), and His own (JEWS) did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become CHILDREN of God, to those who BELIEVE in His name: who were BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.
Jesus answered and said to him, �Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again (BORN of GOD), he cannot see the kingdom of God.�
Are you a SON of God? Or are you a SLAVE of your sexual immorality? Your sins? Your slavery? Your false god in Islam?
Unless one is born BORN of GOD, he cannot see the kingdom of God!
Are you SONS of God? Are you HEIRS of God?!
Or are you slaves of your sinful life and lust?
For you are all SONS of God through FAITH in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither JEW nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ�s, then you are Abraham�s seed, and HEIRS according to the promise.
Galatian3
How we-sinners-can be heirs of God and His sons? How can we be righteous? God imputed us the righteousness of His Son tough our FAITH in Him to WALK with God in a transformed and renewed life OBEYING God's commands!
God�s Righteousness Through Faith:
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3
I said:... the HOLY Land Israel because the HOLY Jewish people and God DWELL there...
Today all believers in the God of Israel are HOLY if they live with God and NOT AGAINST Him!
Not only Jews are holy today but rather many nations and races....They are righteous because their God Jesus is RIGHTEOUS. They are heirs and sons of God loved by God.
Unless one is born BORN of GOD, he cannot see the kingdom of God!
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin (HE does NOT continue in SIN), because he has been born of God.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin!
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning!
Those who have been born from God don't live sinful lives!
No one who is a child of God is habitually guilty of sin.
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another!
Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But whoever has this world�s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we KEEP His commandments and DO those things that are pleasing in His sight.
And this is His commandment (COMMAND): that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and LOVE one another, as He gave us commandment.
Now he who KEEPS His commandments abides in Him (GOD), and He in him.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is BORN of God and KNOWS God.
He who does not love does not know God, for God is LOVE.
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in LOVE abides in God, and God in him.
Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment!
Those who are heirs of God...His SONS will occupy not only the Promised Land/Israel when Jesus will defend the Israeli people soon during the World War 3 but the universe too dwelling with God in His dwelling place!
"Behold, the tabernacle of God (in the NEW JERUSALEM) is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.�
Almost everyday and every night I was looking at my Israel sitting at the beach..incredible beautiful place called the HOLY Land because the HOLY Jewish people live there...The people are HOLY because the HOLY God always lived AMONG them!
Incredible beautiful place called the New Jerusalem because the HOLY people of any race will live there...The people are HOLY because the HOLY God lives AMONG them!
"What day is he talking about at the start of Chapter 13 (Zechariah) where it says "In that day"? What is all that chapter talking about? What does it mean near the end of Chapter 13 where it says "smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered"? When was the shepherd smitten? I always thought that was talking about Christs death. Do you have another interpretation for that passage?
Sometimes "the day of the Lord" is speaking of his first coming here he died and rose again and brought judgement of Israel and sometimes it's talking about his second coming when he is coming in Glory to execute judgement of the world.
Sometimes it gets blurry which one is being spoken of because of all the imagery and analogy. What is all this about judgement of nations like Egypt in Chapter 14? It's not what happens AFTER his second coming so when is it? Maybe it's what happens at his second coming but not during some unproven literal 1000 year millennium. That's not suppose to be a time of judgement but a paradise. But it's far from being all peace and paradise in Ch 14. It talking about fighting and drought and plagues.
Here is says there will be a remnant but in Revelation is says the remnant will be destroyed at Christ's return.
It's not as easy to figure out as we would wish. At the end of Daniel it says the vision was sealed meaning not to be understood. Daniel himself said he did not know what it meant. The Book of revelation is the opening of the seals, all but just one small part in Chapter 10 that were uttered by the seven thunders."
MY RESPONSE:
John hi,
Zechariah 13:
(1) When will be "In that day"? I do not know and no one knows.
�In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
First of all we need to identify the Fountain! What is this Fountain?
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jeremiah 2:13
"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
The SON of God speaks:
"It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
John 4:10
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he (the SON of God JESUS) would have given you living water."
Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb (the SON of God) at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; 'he will lead them to springs of living water.' 'And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'"
Jeremiah 2:13
Verse Concepts
"For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water.
So the answer to the question "what is the "fountain"" is God/JESUS.
So what will happen during the day of "a fountain (JESUS) opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem"
God will JUDGE Israel and prophets.
(2) �Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion,�
Says the Lord of hosts.
Who is the Shepherd? This is one of the names of the SON of God/Jesus.
"Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered".
When this prophecy/prediction was fulfilled?
Jesus explained that in Mark 14: 27
27 And Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away, because it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 28"But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee."�
(3) Next prophecy in this chapter:
And it shall come to pass in all the land,�
Says the Lord,
�That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one�third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one�third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, �This is My people�;
And each one will say, �The Lord is my God.��
What is TWO-THIRDS and one third?
"One�third" of the people of Israel will SURVIVE the Judgement of God. Where? In Israel.
�That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one�third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one�third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, �This is My people�;
And each one will say, �The Lord is my God.��
God is going to purify these Jews who will believe in Him during His Judgement. When?
The answer is in the Chapter 14: the World War 14.
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
So when will it happen we know now. And we know that "the remnant of the (JEWS) people" will survive this coming war.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet (the feet of the SON of God) will stand on the Mount of Olives...
...Thus the Lord (JESUS)my God will come,
And all the saints with You....
Then we read that there will be a strong earthquake..."solar collapse" or smth like that...(or nuclear explosion...LOL)...
..there will appear a RIVER in Jerusalem...
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
It looks like high temperature exposure like during a nuclear attack...
The Muslim Army which will attack Israel during this war will be killed during the RETURN of Jesus... (by the brightness of His coming...)
And He will establish His Millennium Reign on our planet.
IS THE 1,000 YEAR FIRST RESURRECTION IN REVELATION 20:4-6 FOR THE 24 ELDERS ON THRONES AND MARTYRS ONLY??
Jesus promised to 12 Apostles who followed Him {Including Paul?} that they would be given 12 THRONES and the authority to JUDGE in Matthew 19:28 & Luke 22:30. In Revelation 4:4 Before the beginning of the Great Tribulation John saw exactly 24 thrones surrounding God's Throne in Heaven. The other 12 thrones were most likely given to 12 prominent OT Elders such as Abraham, Joseph and Isaiah. One of these 24 Elders speaks in Rev 7:13-17 and after the 7TH angel sounds the 7TH and Last Trumpet in Rev 11:15 ONLY the 24 Elders state in Rev 11:16-18: �The time has come for JUDGING the dead and for rewarding your saints.�
� �It is completely obvious that the 1,000 year reign mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is for 24 ELDERS on Thrones and MARTYRS ONLY according to God's Word in Revelation 20:4,5b,6a: "I saw Thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to JUDGE and I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded {Or martyred} because of their testimony for Jesus {NT MARTYRS} and because of the Word of God {OT MARTYRS}. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands {**TRIBULATION MARTYRS**}. THEY {THE 24 ELDERS & MARTYRS} came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years... This is the FIRST RESURRECTION... Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.' {Which includes THE TRIBULATION MARTYRS!!}
And so the First Resurrection **INCLUDES** the *TRIBULATION MARTYRS*. IF the First Resurrection is a rapture **BEFORE** the Tribulation it certainly can not **INCLUDE** the *TRIBULATION MARTYRS*!!!!
The pre-tribbers believe there will be 2 Resurrections. They believe the First Resurrection is for church saints only and will last just 1 day just **BEFORE** the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They also believe that the Second Resurrection is for OT saints and Tribulation saints and will take place on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation. However, this is impossible since God's Word clearly states the the Tribulation saints will be included in the 1,000 year First Resurrection!!
Rev 20:5a: �The rest of the dead {Those saints who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on Thrones} did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ENDED.� Which, of course, would be the SECOND RESURRECTION at the 2nd Coming of Jesus. There are only TWO RESURRECTIONS for all saints mentioned in Rev 20:4-6: The FIRST RESURRECTION is for MARTYRS AND THE 24 ELDERS ONLY and INCLUDES the Tribulation Martyrs. And therefore the SECOND RESURRECTION must come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation and must include ALL SAINTS {Both OT & NT} who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on thrones.
The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven during the 1,000 years before His 2nd Coming; and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them. They will receive White Robes washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
FOR EXAMPLE: Let us suppose that the SECOND RESURRECTION takes place on September 16th, 2016; then the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION for MARTYRS AND 24 ELDERS ONLY would take place from Sepember 16th, AD 1016 to September 16th, 2016. The 24 Elders and all of the OT & NT saints martyred before September 16th, 1016 were awakened to reign with Jesus in Heaven and every Martyr martyred after September 16th, 1016 were and will be immediately awakened to reign with Jesus in the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION to be completed on September 16th, 2016 at the SECOND RESURRECTION when "The rest of the dead come to life when the thousand years are ENDED." {Rev 20:5a}
Rev 20:4b �I saw the *SOULS of those who had been martyred because of their testimony for Jesus... they came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years. The Martyrs SOULS will only get their New Heavenly bodies when the 1,000 years are ENDED at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
This seems to contradict John 6:40: Jesus says, �EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.� However, the LAST DAY RESURRECTION could last 1,000 years for in 2 Pet 3:8 we read: �With the Lord a DAY is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are like a DAY!!
