47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
Have you ever been greeted with an "<>< xo" by one who "follows Jesus" only to find a knife in your back when you turn around? Have you ever wondered why others who call themselves "Christians" go to such great lengths to obstruct and oppose those who desire to speak life and truth? It's an all too familiar scenario in"Christian" circles. If you've experienced this, you are not alone. Take heart, be encouraged dear brothers and sisters. You are in good company!
Jesus said:
Matt 10
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
John 15
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
'What I've seen so far is a frequent use of the term "false teacher", which is the absolute worst insult to someone that considers themselves to be christian. I could label anyone who disagrees with me on any bible subject as a false teacher, but that doesn't mean it's true. Some people simply believe what they've read or been taught(and maybe it's the truth), and maybe we're wrong and/or not good enough to explain their "error" and convince them otherwise"
Nah, the worst insult would be to accuse them of NOT being a Christian at all. False teachers have plenty of options: stop teaching, stop teaching falsely, figure out through patient dialogue why others perceive them to be false teachers, and so on. Making a few mistakes here and there is not the mark of a false teacher for me anyway. We all make mistakes. It has more to do with an overarching attitude: inability to prove their case from the Word, no desire to prove their case from the word, consistent insults and belittling those who challenge them on the teachings, no admission of error, no apologies ever issued, no repentance (back at it the next day). For me, this has to happen over a prolonged period of time and with foundational doctrinal issues or serious error specific to an audience. For example, you don't teach single people that sex outside of marriage is fine.
I disagree a small amount, but I think you're generally right. But, I'm not arguing that you're wrong about the truth you defend, I'm finding fault with how you deliver/execute that truth with other people.
I do agree, the bible bears record that sex outside of marriage is a sin, harmful to healthy relationships and trust, and it should not be condoned. If LTM is promoting that, he needs to humbly reconsider his position. Sex is an example of our relationship with God, and if you're having sex with a bunch of people before marriage, that's basically the physical equivalent of spiritual fornication(like Israel in the old testament), except instead of against God, it's against your future spouse. That's a lot of insecurity, fear, and a shaky foundation to build a trust relationship on. It can be forgiven, and the effects can be overcome(or I wouldn't exist:goofball:, thank God for nice parents), but it's still not something to be promoted.
That should not change how you deal with him though, even if he was nailing your hands to a tree. And the best way to reach him, in my opinion, is to be his brother, to show him you care about his interests and the interests of other people.
"Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in LOVE, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ."
We're supposed to be steadfast in this above all else:
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
:peace::peace:
P.S. I still think a false teacher would be my own personal worst insult. If you're not a christian, you can still become one. If you're a false teacher, it's generally assumed you're blind, reprobate, leading others astray, and misrepresenting God. Those last parts add a lot of insult to a christian, especially any of them that love God and care about other people.
You are welcome to say that I am wrong anytime. The test for me is whether or not you can prove so Scripturally. If you can, I will immediately adopt the Scriptural view and apologize openly for ever having held a contrary view. That is the significant difference between myself and others that I have dealt with here.
You said: "That should not change how you deal with him though, even if he was nailing your hands to a tree. And the best way to reach him, in my opinion, is to be his brother, to show him you care about his interests and the interests of other people."
This assumes that I have never done this. Does it not? Are you giving me the benefit of the doubt as you teach? Or are you presuming the worst from me?
Now, whose interest should I care about more? His interest in continuing to post junk? or the interest of those here who have to wade through it to try and get to the truth? It's a bit like arguing that I should try to be brotherly to the guy who keeps coming to church naked. Should I protect his interests or the interests of those who have to be exposed to his nakedness week after week?
There is some merit to your observation is this sense. The ones who actually wanted Jesus hands nailed to the tree were the Pharisees and False Teachers of his day. Can you show me some example of how Jesus dealt with them? Did he treat them as "brothers"? Or did he highlight that they were not his brothers at all by telling them "They were of their father, the devil" Do a study on this.
I could go on much further in this discussion but frankly I have covered so much of this here already over time and it has done very little to change the minds of folks like yourself. I will say this though, the approach you are suggesting is a very large part of why the churches today are in doctrinal shambles. If the formula you are advancing worked, the proof would be in the proverbial pudding.
God bless you brother. I can see your heart is in trying to find the right thing and living it.
