Author	Thread: The 'Spock' Gospel
Admin	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 19 Dec, 2012 06:11 AM Why do people think for something to be true it has to be logical? I think the 5 point Calvinist is the worst offender and a good example of what I'm speaking of. We are all individuals and God treats us accordingly. We are creations of God who can do what he pleases with what he created; answering to no one and judged by no one. The Gospel is not about logic it is about relationship and relationships vary from person to person; God is unchanging however we are not, nor are we all the same. Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 10:52 AM Djlrn04 "I believe this is talking about being slain by the law and found guilty. Paul talks about being alive before the knowledge of the law, but when the law was brought before him, sin was made apparent and he was rightly labeled as guilty. The law slayed him and made him dead in trespasses." . "From birth we are born in sin, because of Adam being our first father. Psalms 58 :3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies." . Well which is it? Dead at birth or dead when exposed to the law? Hmmmm.... Seems to me you need to define "dead" as literal or figurative, as physical or spiritual, as present or future. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:03 AM "If the reason was outside of scripture, then maybe...however I fail to see how it's circular reasoning for those who get this belief from scripture." It's only a problem if it doesn't line up with scripture, but I realize that everyone's view of that is different. To me, there is a huge mass of scripture that disproves all of those points, and all of those points applied to the bible cause many of the principles and admonitions and recommendations and duties and warnings to become pointless and meaningless gestures, and very often the fruits of those beliefs that I see are people just flat out rejecting the bible because of the manipulative/controlling/self-glorifying deity it portrays, strangely enough, who seems very similar to the pagan gods of the Romans(Dark Ages anyone?). I believe that if Christ/God is lifted up for who he actually is, and people understand his character, God would be winning this battle over souls instead of losing most people to the will of Satan(I know he's not really losing, but you know what I mean). Satan's deception in Genesis was to lead Adam and Eve to believe that God was a liar, and that he was trying to control them to keep them from becoming like him. Basically a manipulative/selfish tyrant, when God is actually the opposite. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:09 AM Graceundeserved : "what's wrong with logic?" . Is logic in fallible? Does logic always lead to the truth? Can logic provide salvation? Can logic define the nature of God? . Concerning spiritual matters logic at best is a limited tool Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:26 AM "Exactly! It is a closed system and the logic only works within that system; I agree whole heartily." The logic only works within that system. Can you prove this? Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:27 AM " To me, there is a huge mass of scripture that disproves all of those points," You've tried that route before and give cliche and out of context answers. You've already been shown that God is the one who chooses. You pretty much admit as much, you just can't take the next step which is to believe that Jesus didn't die to save all. Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:28 AM Logic isn't intended to do each of those things, so what is your point? I asked what was wrong with logic. Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:43 AM Yes you did imply that sparrow. What is your belief on man and sin? Post Reply
dljrn04 View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:46 AM God's word says we are spiritually dead. He calls us and we respond because the sheep know the shepards voice. Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:52 AM Let me show you how the same logic is applied to your belief system. In my system, God chooses so, so therefore He did not give opportunity for all. In your systems God allows everyone to be saved. Therefore He can not have just given some the opportunity. The same logic....applied to your system. Is your system closed too? Post Reply
View Profile History	The 'Spock' Gospel Posted : 21 Dec, 2012 11:56 AM Let me clarify my post...too many typos... Let me show you how the same logic is applied to your belief system. In my system, God chooses some. Therefore He did not give opportunity for all. In your system God allows everyone to be saved. Therefore He can not have just given some the opportunity to some. The same logic....applied to your system. Is your system closed too? Post Reply

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