Teach's problem is rebellion against God and rebellion against His law and His order. It's been shown to her many times.
Teach said "and zebra always appears to have issues with people posting pure Scripture."
Zebra has a problem with Teach's perversion of Scripture and her blatant disregard for what Scripture teaches. Zebra also has a problem with Teach's perpetual lying and bearing FALSE witness against him.
There are many who try to explain away these Words of God:
Ephesians 2:4-9: But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He migh show ine incomcomparable riches in His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, **IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD**--not by works, so that no one can boast!!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him {Jesus} He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never drive away..And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall
lose none of all He has given to me, but raise them up on the last Day...No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise them up on the Last Day."
2 Peter 1:5-11: Make every effort to add to your faith {A free **GIFT OF GOD**} goodness, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness LOVE. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ...Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!
SALVATION IS 100% FREE GIFT OF GOD AND ETERNAL REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED!!
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, "For the Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and then he will *REWARD* each person according to what he has done!"
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
I would say that this verse is talking about our calling as ministers or using our gifts of the spirit, and not a "pre-conversion" calling. In the verse, Paul is already noting that God has already saved them according to His grace, and the calling is for them to spread the good news now that they are saved.
"When was grace given to the Elect? Before the world began. Why did he give grace to his Elect? For his own purpose. This happens in eternity before time."
I would consider this a misrepresentation of the verse. The grace given was in Jesus Christ, who was slain from the foundation of the world for our sins, and we have access into that grace by faith in that sacrifice. I do not believe I had the grace that was given in Christ before I heard the word and had faith, and I think these verses support that idea. We have access into the grace provided by Christ only if we hear the word and have faith in His sacrifice.
I believe that the bible teaches we are not saved, we are not under grace, until we hear the word and believe it.
So, go on believing whatever you want. According to another member here, theology and doctrine are extraneous anyway. So, just "believe in Jesus" (whatever that means) :dancingp:
Let's all just "follow Jesus" like the "Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Spiritualists, Unitarians and several more religions." :party: Now it's a party..........
Singing ...... "when we all get to heaven.....what a day of rejoicing that will be........when we all see Jesus......We'll sing and shout the victory!" :dunce:
Reading your last post and the verses you quoted I have to ask why is it you still do not see the truth of the resurrection?
Because we are already dead in our sins "before Christ," ....... In the "order" we were elected to be in before the foundations of the earth were ever formed; in this time of death we were all born into we have been allowed to pass from death unto life. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!!
Because this is the time of the first death we are all born into, only because we have been appointed to receive life, during this �time," every day of this life that we live in is called "the day of salvation" that comes to an end on the last day of our life
However, after we die our natural physical death it will no longer be the day of salvation but through our immediate appearance in the "second resurrection unto judgment� we will then receive what we have coming either good or bad for the things we did or did not do in this life.
For those who overcome sin in this life (including not teaching false doctrines to others that causes them to not receive the fullness of their salvation in this life such as what the tail of the dragon in revelation is a allegory of) the time of the 'second death" cannot hurt them nor hold any power over them because they have already obtained the fullness of their salvation in this life. Whether they live or die does not matter because they are already "caught up to be with the Lord" in this life. For those who still need some work or have some sins needing to be dealt with, Jesus speaks of servants (Christians) receiving stripes with a whip that was an instrument of punishment designed to remove the �flesh� from a person with the amount of stripes depending on what the judge said to be carried out
We are all on a path that will hopefully take us from the saints without number (10,000 times 10,000) who all have white robes to us becoming one of the "24" elders that represent the tabernacle of David God has promised to raise up again (because David appointed 24 high priests who two at a time serve together at different months of the year) the same as in the Book of Revelations are the leaves of the two trees (witnesses) on either side of the river of the Holy Spirit that are for the "healing of mankind" (nations) each one in their own season producing the fruit God will have them to produce
Every person has a beast within them (spirit of man) and if it rules over them they have the mind of man (mark of the beast �666� on the forehead) and therefore they can only do the works of man (mark of the beast �666� on the hand) that are the only "works and teachings" accepted in the church of man and makes up the only "spiritual food� you can buy or sell in the church of man still under the curse of death.
On the other hand there are those PERSONS TODAY from Ezekiel 9;4 who receive as mark on the forehead because they moaned and wept at the condition of the temple (church) is in today WRITTEN IN THE OLD ANCIENT HEBREW LANGUAGE WHERE THE SYMBOL FOR THIS MARK WAS A CROSS ON THEIR FORHEADS SYMBOLIZING THEY HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST.
666 is the mind of man coming from the spirit of man that is the beast in charge of the church today because the pulpit is where Satan's authority is issued from through the "tail of the dragon aka the prophets who teach lies
Well, I would say that theology and doctrine are a process. Training, if you will, but it is all secondary to the simple gospel. Believe in Jesus as your savior and lord, and follow in His footsteps. We are not required to understand the theology of predestination the instant we accept Jesus. We are required follow Him, to love mercy, live justly, and walk humbly. So, if those are the requirements to be saved, to believe in Jesus and follow Him, you should be happy to realize that so many more children will enter into joy with you. Yes, maybe you're a towering beacon of light and truth, but that only increases your responsibility for the souls of others, and should increase your desire to labor for them to be in the kingdom. Is the free gift is too free for you? I'm really just trying awaken you to care for others who have accepted Jesus, so you'll treat them like siblings instead of enemies.
Matthew 20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
IMO back at the time of thr apostles all "new saints" under their direction had most of the truth between before or at the latest shortly after receiving the baptisim of the Holy Spirit.
Unfortnately today I honsetly do not think there is any one anywhere with the all the knowldge of just one of the "original new converts" let alone the knowledge of one of the apostles
So much of the truth has been replaced with lies the truth is now thought of as a false doctrine
What we are required to know before God can give us the fulness of our inheritance is the 7 doctrines listed in He.6:1-2
Something that I do not know of any church that teaches them correctly.......... not saying there are not any but I do keep my ears open and have yet to find one.
nt of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**!!"
IS THE 1,000 YEAR FIRST RESURRECTION WHO COME TO **LIFE** IN REVELATION 20:4-6; FOR THE 24 ELDERS ON THRONES AND MARTYRS WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE **CROWN OF LIFE** ONLY!!
Jesus promised to 12 Apostles who followed Him {Including Paul?} that they would be given 12 THRONES and the authority to JUDGE in Matthew 19:28 & Luke 22:30. In Revelation 4:4 Before the beginning of the Great Tribulation John saw exactly 24 thrones surrounding God's Throne in Heaven. The other 12 thrones were most likely given to 12 prominent OT Elders such as Abraham, Joseph and Isaiah. One of these 24 Elders speaks in Rev 7:13-17 and after the 7TH angel sounds the 7TH and Last Trumpet in Rev 11:15 ONLY the 24 Elders state in Rev 11:16-18: �The time has come for JUDGING the dead and for rewarding your saints.�
:angel::angel::angel::angel::angel::angel::angel:
It is completely obvious that the 1,000 year reign mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is for 24 ELDERS on Thrones and MARTYRS ONLY according to God's Word in Revelation 20:4,5b,6a:
"I saw Thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to JUDGE and I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded {Or martyred} because of their testimony for Jesus {NT MARTYRS} and because of the Word of God {OT MARTYRS}. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands {**TRIBULATION MARTYRS**}. THEY {THE 24 ELDERS & MARTYRS} came to ***LIFE*** and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years... This is the FIRST RESURRECTION... Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.' {Which includes THE TRIBULATION MARTYRS!!}
And so the First Resurrection **INCLUDES** the *TRIBULATION MARTYRS*. IF the First Resurrection is a rapture **BEFORE** the Tribulation it certainly can not **INCLUDE** the *TRIBULATION MARTYRS*!!!!
The pre-tribbers believe there will be 2 Resurrections. They believe the First Resurrection is for church saints only and will last just 1 day just **BEFORE** the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They also believe that the Second Resurrection is for OT saints and Tribulation saints and will take place on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation. However, this is impossible since God's Word clearly states the the Tribulation saints will be included in the 1,000 year First Resurrection!!
Rev 20:5a: �The rest of the dead {Those saints who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on Thrones} did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ENDED.� Which, of course, would be the SECOND RESURRECTION at the 2nd Coming of Jesus. Their souls are with Jesus until they are awakened at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
In Daniel 12:2 just after the Great Tribulation we read, "Multitudes who SLEEP in the dust of the earth will *AWAKE*, some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
IThess 5:10: He {Jesus} died for us so that, whether we are AWAKE {Martyrs} or asleep, we may live together with Him.
The martyrs who are *AWAKE* with Jesus will also receive their new heavenly bodies at the 2nd coming of Jesus as per I Corinthians 15:51,52: Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all *SLEEP* but we will all be changed--in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last {7TH} Trumpet!!
There are only TWO RESURRECTIONS for all saints mentioned in Rev 20:4-6: The FIRST RESURRECTION is for MARTYRS AND THE 24 ELDERS ONLY and INCLUDES the Tribulation Martyrs. And therefore the SECOND RESURRECTION must come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation and must include ALL SAINTS {Both OT & NT} who are not martyrs or the 24 Elders on thrones.
The Heavenly rewards for the faithful and courageous *MARTYRS* is one of the most important central themes in the book of Revelation. For they will reign with Jesus in Heaven during the 1,000 years before His 2nd Coming; and according to Revelation 7:14-17: They are before the Throne of God and God will spread His tent over them. They will receive White Robes washed in the blood of the Lamb. Never again will they hunger or thirst and God Himself will wipe every tear from their eyes. Jesus will be their Shepherd and will lead them to springs of Living Water.
FOR EXAMPLE: Let us suppose that the SECOND RESURRECTION takes place on September 16th, 2017; then the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION for MARTYRS AND 24 ELDERS ONLY would take place from Sepember 16th, AD 1017 to September 16th, 2017. The 24 Elders and all of the OT & NT saints martyred before September 16th, 1017 were awakened to reign with Jesus in Heaven and every Martyr martyred after September 16th, 1017 were and will be immediately awakened to reign with Jesus in the continuous 1,000 year FIRST RESURRECTION to be completed on September 16th, 2017 at the SECOND RESURRECTION when "The rest of the dead come to life when the thousand years are ENDED." {Rev 20:5a} Rev 20:4b �I saw the *SOULS of those who had been martyred because of their testimony for Jesus... they came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years. The Martyrs SOULS will only get their New Heavenly bodies when the 1,000 years are ENDED at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
This seems to contradict John 6:40:
Jesus says, �EVERYONE who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.� HOWEVER, the LAST DAY RESURRECTION could last 1,000 years for in 2 Pet 3:8 we read: �With the Lord a DAY is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are like a DAY!!
We see the martyrs talking in heaven at the beginning of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 6:9-11 and then we see a great multitude of martyrs who have come out of the Great Tribulation from every nation and language awake in heaven just before the first 7 trumpet plagues in Revelation 7:9-17. And then just before the last 7 bowl plagues we see martyrs in heaven singing the song of the Lamb in Revelation 15:2-4: And then we see 144,000 Jewish martyrs in heaven with Jesus BEFORE Rome or Babylon is destroyed in Rev 14:8 in Revlation 14:1-5:
Revelation 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? Then each of them were given a WHITE ROBE, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fwellow servants and brothers who were to be killed {Tribulation martyrs} as they had been was completed.
Revelation 7:9,10,13-15,17: After this I looked and there before me was a grat multitude that do one could count, from EVERY nation, tribe, people and language standing before the throne nd in front of the Lamb {Jesus} They were wearing WHITE ROBES and were holding..And they cried out in a loud voice"Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne , and to the Lamb...Then one of the {24} elders asked me, "Those in WHITE ROBES--who are they, and where did they come from?" And he said, "They are they who have come out of the *GREAT TRIBULATION*, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, They are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple...The Lamb in the center of the throne will be their Shepherd!"
Revelation 15:2,3: And I saw..those who had been victorious over the Beast {666} and his image and the number of his name {Tribulation Martyrs}. They held harps given them by God and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages..."
Note: Mount Zion is another name for heaven as per Hebrews 12:22}
Revelation 14:1-4: Then I looked, an there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 {See Rev 7:3-8}...And I heard a sound from Heaven...And they sang a new song before the throne. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been REDEEMED from the earth...They follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
The 24 Elders on thrones are mentioned many times in Revelation 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16-18; 14:3 and 19:4
The 24 Elders on thrones are mentioned many times speaking from heaven during the Great Tribulation and are the only saints mentioned in heaven during the Great Tribulation besides the MARTYRS!!
It is completely obvious that the 1,000 year reign mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is for 24 ELDERS on Thrones and MARTYRS ONLY according to God's Word in Revelation 20:4,5b,6a:
"I saw Thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to JUDGE and I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded {Or martyred} because of their testimony for Jesus {NT MARTYRS} and because of the Word of God {OT MARTYRS}. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands {**TRIBULATION MARTYRS**}. THEY {THE 24 ELDERS & MARTYRS} came to ****LIFE*** and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years... This is the FIRST RESURRECTION... Blessed and holy are those who have part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.' {Which includes THE TRIBULATION MARTYRS!!}
"Something that I do not know of any church that teaches them correctly.......... not saying there are not any but I do keep my ears open and have yet to find one. "
I have no doubt that Teach_ib probably belongs to one that teaches them correctly. She also probably knows of several others. :nahnah::laugh:
