Author Thread: Was Jesus A Capitalist?
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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 18 Mar, 2014 06:17 AM

By my friend Tom:



Was Jesus a capitalist? Let me give some background. One weekend back in 2009, there was a taxpayer march on Washington. The only thing that people had in common, is that they all see that this country (USA) is going in the wrong direction. A fair amount of them were protesting the socialist direction the Obama Administration is taking this country at warp speed. All of them were protesting the runaway spending in Washington.



Many of them claimed to be Christians. They touted the virtues of free-market capitalism. I came away from watching the event on C-SPAN, impressed with the idea that those who said they were Christians, thought that Jesus was a capitalist.



If Jesus was a capitalist, would he tell the rich ruler to sell everything he had and give to the poor. What Jesus said seems to be more a mandate for the re-distribution of wealth. And Jesus thought that we should pay taxes. "Give to Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's." He said that after being showed a coin and asking who's likeness was on the coin. Then Jesus chased those engaged in capitalistic endeavors out of the temple claiming, "You have turned My Father's house into a den of thieves." And, finally, Jesus said, "the love of money is the root of all evil." When you consider these facts, how can anyone conclude that Jesus was a capitalist?



What principles can we establish for today from what Jesus said and did?



1) Rich people should help poor people.



2) We should pay our taxes.



3) Buying and selling for profit must not happen in the church.



4) We must not be greedy (lover of money).



These principles suggests that Jesus would not be a capitalist today. I have no doubt that if Jesus was a politician He would be condemned by the political right of being a liberal. But then, I don't believe that Jesus would ever stoop so low as to be a politician. He might be a community organizer, or a liberal activist. No way Jesus would fit into the conservative crowd of today.



So if Jesus is not a capitalist, or a conservative, what was he? Jesus believed in people helping people, at the very least. How far can we go with Jesus commands of love? How far should we love one another? By example, the teachings of Jesus are to love one another all the way, even to the point of death, as He died for the people He loved



The problem in America is that those that have don't help, those that don't have can't help. We have two groups in America. Capitalists, and those who are or will be poor.

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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 20 Mar, 2014 11:55 AM

Acts 2:44,45: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. {Not through the government}



Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.



Ephesians 4:28: He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. {Not through the government}



Jesus did not say to the rich man to sell all his possessions!



Luke 19:8,9: Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor..Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house."



Luke 6:29,30: Jesus says,"If someone strikes you on one cheek turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."



Christians are only responsible to help other Christians who are in need and unsaved when they are asked to.



The early church only worshipped in private houses and there is no record of the early saints in Acts spending any money for church buildings.



Unfortunately most Christian churches spend almost all their money to buy expensive church buildings and have very little money left for helping their fellow believers in Africa who are in need since they live on a dollar a day.



Poor Christians in the USA usually have cars and cell phones and food stamps and are not nearly as in need as our fellow Christians in Africa who live on a dollar a day.



:angel::angel::angel::angel::angel::angel::angel:

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Matthew75

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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 20 Mar, 2014 05:37 PM

BibleGuy Wrote:



A. Does the U.S. Constitution trump the Holy Bible? Feel free to quote from Scripture to support your view that those things you mentioned fall under the jurisdiction of the civil government.







See Romans 13:1-7



No, the Constitution doesn't trump the Bible but the Bible tells us to live under the authorities God has placed over us. Therefore, the Bible tells us to live by and honor the laws of this land. It is only when the law is such that we are required to commit acts of evil in directly conflict to Gods law.



For example, Nazi Germany, people were required to turn in the Jews so that they could be slaughtered by the government. In that case, defiance would be justified.



Also, laws that are designed to disadvantage a particular group would be umbilical such as making it difficult to impossible for blacks to vote such as existed in the early-mid 20th century America.







>>>Using your own argument, you will quickly find that to grant extorted tax dollars to one socialist program will lead to granting tax dollars to another socialist program and on and on it goes. (witness the current state of the U.S.) It's a slippery slope.



That is why having a lopsided "balance of power" is a bad thing in the congress. It allows one side to railroad bad laws through without giving it fair review by those chosen to represent the interests of the people of this country. When Obama first got in to office, democrats had full control of our government and were able force through some very bad legislation. ( yes, Republicans are equally guilty of doing the same thing when they have power.) When the power is balanced the way it is supposed to be, laws that are more fair are passed.



No government created by man is perfect and as long as they are run by man, there will be corruption.



>>>D.Under your premise, who determines which socialist programs should get funding? And, by what objective standard is that determined?



As Christians, at least in this country, all we can do it make sure our voices are heard to prevent bad laws from getting passed. VOTE. Contact your Representative and Senator when laws are being considered that you have concerns about.



YOU have a voice in this country. By failing to use it, you let other decide for you. It is OUR collective voices that decide what programs succeed.

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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 20 Mar, 2014 09:33 PM

In the OT God ordered Israel to kill their enemies many times and God helped them do it. However in the NT Jesus commands, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." Luke 6:27-29



Leviticus 26:7,8: God said to Israel, "You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the SWORD before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the SWORD before you!" Numbers 25:16,17" The Lord said to Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them!" etc etc



HOWEVER IN THE NEW COVENANT, JESUS SAYS, "ALL WHO DRAW THE SWORD WILL DIE BY THE SWORD!"



Jesus said to His 11 Apostles, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. For it is written: "And He was numbered with the transgressors"{Isaiah 53:12} and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in Me. Yes, what is written about Me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See Lord, here are 2 {Not 11}swords." "That is enough." Jesus replied.



Matthew 26:30-34: They seized Jesus and arrested Him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "For *ALL* who draw the sword will die by the sword...But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"



And so the only reason that Jesus allowed the disciples to have 2 swords was so that the Scripture in Isaiah 53:12 would be fulfilled: "He was numbered among the transgressors."



Jesus said to Pilate, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But **NOW** My Kingdom is from another place!"



Former OT commands in Exodus 21:23-25 "If there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."



This was changed by these NT commands by Jesus:



Matthew 5:38,39: Jesus commands, "You have heard that it was said {In Exodus 21:23-25 above}, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also!"



Luke 6:27-29: Jesus commands, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you. do not demand it back!"



Romans 12:18-21: If it is possible, as far as it DEPENDS ON YOU, LIVE AT PEACE WITH EVERYONE! Do not take revenge my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written, "It is mine to revenge, I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head" Do not be overcome by evil but OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD!!



2 Corinthians 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are *NOT* the weapons of the world."



The only weapons that NT saints may use who follow the New Covenant commands of Jesus is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. A NT saint would not even think of joining the army of any nation and becoming a professional killer or defending himself with a gun. Unfortunately very few Groups such as the Amish and Mennonites still obey these sacred commands of Jesus.



I John 2:3-5: "We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His {Jesus'} commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what He {Jesus} commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him."



The inspired words of the NT were inspired by God between AD 50 and AD 96 and the 4 Gospels were written about AD 65 And so all of the approximately 400 NT commands were not completed and in force until Around AD 96.



When you join the military and become a professional killer you must make a **VOW** that you will obey all the commands of your commanding officer. And so if He commands you to drop an Atomic Bomb that will kill about 100,000 civilians including about 25,000 innocent children you must obey this command!!!



What is th OT command concerning *VOWS* and *OATHS*?? Numbers 30:2: Moses said, "This is what the Lord commands: When a man makes a *VOW* to the Lord or takes an *OATH* to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said!"



What are the NT commands concerning making *VOWS* and **OATHS*??



James 5:12: "ABOVE ALL, my brothers, do not swear--not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.!!"



Matthew 5:33-37: Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said to your people long ago {Numbers 30:2 above}, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' BUT I tell you, Do not swear at all....Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No, 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one!!"



Anyone who claims that Jesus did not change OT laws is completely blind. All of the OT sabbath laws have been eliminated. All of the OT sacrifical and temple laws have been eliminated by the eternal sacrifice for sins by Jesus. All of the stoning to death laws for breaking the law have been eliminated. All of the laws concerning killing your enemies, and eye for an eye and making oaths have been eliminated. All Circumcision laws have been eliminated. And Jesus decared that all foods are now *CLEAN*!!



Mark 7:18,19: Jesus says, "Are you so dull?" He asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this. Jesus declared ALL FOODS "CLEAN!"



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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 20 Mar, 2014 09:54 PM

Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!"



*WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!



Galatians 2:14-16,20,21; 3:2,5,10-13;23-25: Paul said, When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.!"



Galatians 2:20,21: The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"



Galatians 3:10-13: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us!



Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW!!"



Hebrews 7:18,19: The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was weak and useless; for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.!



Hebrews 8:8,9,13: "The time is coming." says the Lord, "when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".... By calling this Covenant "NEW", He has made the first one OBSOLETE; and what is OBSOLETE and aging will soon disappear."



Hebrews 8:6: But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is Mediator is SUPERIOR TO THE OLD ONE, and it is founded on better promises.



Colossians 2:16,17: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you **EAT** or drink, or with regard to a religous festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a *SHADOW* of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ!!!



All of the OT sabbath laws have been eliminated. Both Jesus and His Father have declared all foods are now clean. All of the OT sacrifical and temple laws have been eliminated. All of the stoning to death laws for breaking the law have been eliminated. All of the laws concerning an eye for an eye and making oaths have been eliminated. Circumcision laws have been eliminated. Loving one another as Jesus loved us has replaced loving one another as you love yourself.



Their about 400 NT laws to be obeyed with *LOVE* in the hope of countless eternal rewards for faithful and loving service has replaced the 613 OT laws.





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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 22 Mar, 2014 09:52 AM

The OP was a copy and paste of one of my articles. I do not understand the nature of many of the opposing comments. All my article does is ask and answer the question, "Was Jesus A Capitalist." Clearly he was not.



My article does not go into dictatorial regimes that have forced some form of communism on their people. So, I am not going to respond to those comments.



Has any one of you read the last paragraph? By your comments, obviously. Ultimately my position is that any economic system carried out in love will work for everyone.



In the last paragraph I concluded that Jesus was not a capitalist, and if you are a Christian, and are honest, and know anything about Jesus, you would have to agree.



For those who missed it, here is the last paragraph....

"So if Jesus is not a capitalist, or a conservative, what was he? Jesus believed in people helping people, at the very least. How far can we go with Jesus commands of love? How far should we love one another? By example, the teachings of Jesus are to love one another all the way, even to the point of death, as He died for the people He loved."

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Was Jesus A Capitalist?
Posted : 22 Mar, 2014 11:50 PM

Welcome, my friend. :yay:

You are right.



But we just wanted to think more about capitalism and socialism...I liked comments of all people in this Thread. :applause:

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