One of the most popular beliefs of the day is that God loves everybody, and the very fact that it is so popular with all classes ought to be enough to arouse the suspicions of those who are subject to the Word of Truth. God�s love toward all His creatures is the fundamental and favorite tenet of Universalists, Unitarians, Theosophists, Christian Scientists, Russellites, etc. No matter how a man may live � in open defiance of Heaven, with no concern whatever for his soul�s eternal interests, still less for God�s glory, dying, perhaps with an oath on his lips � notwithstanding, God loves him, we are told. So widely has this dogma been proclaimed, and so comforting is it to the heart which is at enmity with God, we have little hope of convincing many of their error. That God loves everybody, is, we may say, quite a modern belief. The writings of the church fathers, the Reformers or the Puritans will (we believe) be searched in vain for any such concept. Perhaps the late D. L. Moody � Captivated by Drummond�s �The Greatest Thing in the World� � did more than anyone else in the last century to popularize this concept.
It has been customary to say God loves the sinner though He hates his sin. But that is a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner by sin? Is it not true that his �whole head is sick� and his �whole heart faint,� and that �from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness� in him? (Isa. 1:5,6) Is it true that God loves the one who is despising and rejecting His blessed Son? God is Light as well as Love, and therefore His love must be a holy love. To tell the Christ-rejector that God loves him is to cauterize his conscience as well as to afford him a sense of security in his sins. The fact is, the love of God is a truth for the saints only, and to present it to the enemies of God is to take the children�s bread and cast it to the dogs. With the exception of John 3:16, not once in the four Gospels do we read of the Lord Jesus, the perfect Teacher, telling sinners that God loves them! In the book of Acts, which records the evangelistic labors and messages of the apostles, God�s love is never referred to at all! But when we come to the Epistles, which are addressed to the saints, we have a full presentation of this precious truth � God�s love for His own. Let us seek to rightly divide the word of God and then we shall not be found taking truths which are addressed to believers and misapplying them to unbelievers. That which sinners need to have brought before them is the ineffable holiness, the exacting righteousness, the inflexible justice and the terrible wrath of God. Risking the danger of being misunderstood let us say � and we wish we could say it to every evangelist and preacher in the country � there is far too much presenting of Christ to sinners today (by those sound in the faith), and far too little showing sinners their need of Christ, i.e., their absolutely ruined and lost condition, their imminent and awful danger of suffering the wrath to come, the fearful guilt resting upon them in the sight of God: to present Christ to those who have never been shown their need of Him, seems to us to be guilty of casting pearls before swine.
If it be true that God loves every member of the human family, then why did our Lord tell His disciples �He that hath My commandments, and keepeth hem, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him.� (John 14:21,23)? Why say �he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father�? if the Father loves everybody? The same limitation is found in Prov. 8:17: �I love them that love Me.� Again we read, �Thou hatest all workers of iniquity� (Psa 5:5)! �God is angry with the wicked every day.� (Psa. 7:11) �He that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God� � not �shall abide,� but even now � �abideth on him.� (John 3:36) Can God �love� the one on whom His �wrath� abides? Again, is it not evident that the words, �The love of God which is in Christ Jesus� (Rom. 8:39) marks a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love? Again, is it not plain from the words �Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated� (Rom. 9:13) that god does not love everybody? Again, it is written, �For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.� (Heb. 12:6) Does not this verse teach that God�s love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. Finally, we would ask, Is it conceivable that god will love the damned in the Lake of Fire? Yet, if He loves them now He will do so then, seeing that His love knows no change � He is �without variableness or shadow of turning�!
Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. �God so loved the world. . .� Many suppose that this means the entire human race. But �the entire human race� includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth�s history: it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, he history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the savior came to the earth, lived here �having no hope and without God in the world,� and therefore passed out into an eternity of woe. If God �loved� them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares �Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.� (Acts 14:16) Scripture declares that �And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.� (Rom. 1:28). To Israel God said, �You only have I known of all the families of the earth.� (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future. Read through the book of Revelation, noting especially chapters 8 to 19, where we have described he judgments which will be poured out from Heaven on this earth. Read of the fearful woes, the frightful plagues, the vials of God�s wrath, which shall be emptied on the wicked. Finally, read the twentieth chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love.
I know you are confused teach, you need to read God's word in context, not just cherry pick scripture out of context to prove your false teaching of" ALL"
Your first mis quoted proof text:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
let us look to see whom God is talking about shall we
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter a servant and an Apostle of Jesus Christ, to you which have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you, through the acknowledging of God, and of Jesus Christ our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the acknowledging of him that hath called us unto glory and virtue.
it is "to you which have obtained like precious faith " it is God's chosen whom he is talking to that is the ALL you so badly want us to believe have the desire and will to do what God has called us to do.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Let us look to see whom these words are being addressed,2 Corinthians 1: 1 PAUL an Apostle of JESUS Christ, by the will of God, and our brother Timothy, to the Church of God, which is at Corinth, with all the Saints, which are in all Achaia:
again this is written to " the Church of God" not ALL of your belief of the whole entire human race, but to God's children, his called out ones, his elect.
Not ALL will go to God's kingdom, only the ALL he has changed their hearts ( his children, the precious gift he gave his son, the elect).
There is nothing arrogant in boasting in God, ALL the arrogance is thinking you and your free will can do anything to change the will of God.
God's Word is not confusing...when others corrupt the plain English or Greek by adding their own interpretation to simple, straightforward words, confusion is injected.
"If we were already "God's", why must we be reconciled? Because God said so, what God says in his holy infallible word is what i believe. God made us (his children) to glorify him and to enjoy him forever.
how are we born again? by the holy spirit, thorough the hearing of God's holy word. NO ONE will come unless the holy spirit draws him. God's word says it i believe it, because God has changed my heart to love him. I love him because he first loved me. It has nothing to do with me, lest i would have something to boast of. It is all of God. God created us, Jesus died for us, the holy spirit teaches us truth."
:bouncy: I meant, why must we be reconciled if we were already God's from the foundation of the world? I have no disagreement that God draws us, or that the Holy Spirit draws us, and that we would not seek God unless He did draw us, but you seem to imply that precludes any kind of belief or faith by us when the bible is clear that we must believe to be saved. God sows the seed, yes, but that parable clearly shows the distinctions to our reaction to the seed(The Word made flesh).
Matthew 13
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
James 4:8
DRAW near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.
Ezekiel 18
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: therefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
I just don't see the issue really. God is our father. If God is our Father, He still will punish and chastise even those that He loves, ESPECIALLY those that He loves, and it is absolutely possible to love someone and still punish them, even by sending them to Hell. God is not willing that any should perish, not even His enemies, but He will eradicate sin. Just because love is involved, it doesn't mean God is a passive emotional crying wimp who can't execute justice, the bible clearly says that God is both justice and love. Like I said already, the only reason why I can see that this is an issue for you, is because you want to feel special, like the Israelites thought that they were special. God "chose" the Israelites, but God also cut off the Israelites because of unbelief, many, many times, and Paul made it clear that just because you were a chlid of Abraham, it doesn't make you part of "Israel".
Ezekiel 33
11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
I am not confused over God's Word, I am confused over how some will manipulate plain English...the interpreters of the King James Version went to great lengths to chose the right words based on the context and terminology used in the original writings.
We even have the luxury of studying the original language of the Bible.
I'm thankful to serve a God who doesn't't change and loves all, the inclusive all. Without His love, I would not be saved from eternal separation from Him. Grace THROUGH faith...
" :bouncy: I meant, why must we be reconciled if we were already God's from the foundation of the world? I have no disagreement that God draws us, or that the Holy Spirit draws us, and that we would not seek God unless He did draw us, but you seem to imply that precludes any kind of belief or faith by us when the bible is clear that we must believe to be saved. God sows the seed, yes, but that parable clearly shows the distinctions to our reaction to the seed(The Word made flesh)."
HUGH, that is what i have been saying for years. God draws, the elect in faith respond. So why are you so contentious?????
"HUGH, that is what i have been saying for years. God draws, the elect in faith respond. So why are you so contentious?????"
I only contend with the idea that God only elects a few and hates the rest, I just don't think God works like that.
Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is accepted with him.
Rev 3
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
The Parable of the Two Sons
Matt 21
28But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
Matthew 25
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
:bouncy:Israel was God's "chosen people", but I think God is pretty clear that only those who bear the fruits of the kingdom will inherit it, and that anyone, Jew or Gentile, can be "grafted in" to the root, or "cut off" because of unbelief.
Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Romans 11
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
2 Peter 1
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is accepted with him.
God has not chosen some for election, and some for destruction because of what they have done. He for his own will before the foundations of the world.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Romans 9:11-13 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls, (12) it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." (13) As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Ephesians 1:11-12 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (12) that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
He saves those the father has given to him.
John 17:1-2 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
It does not matter what we think, it is what God has said, and by the grace of God through his holy spirit i believe. May God forgive your unbelief.
18 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
John 3
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
God changes his mind based on people's repentance. God has given ALL things to Christ, and whoever believes will be saved. Whoever does not believe will not be saved. Those who do believe are "elected". Jesus compares himself to the bronze serpent in the wilderness. "Look and live". The Israelites had to "look" to the serpent in faith to be cured from the poison, in the same way we must "believe" in Christ to be saved from sin. We are saved through faith.
Luke 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am [He], you will die in your sins."
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
1 John 5:5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 Timothy 2:5 For [there] [is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing!
John 5:40 "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."
