1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.�
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5�I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.�
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.�
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.�
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.�
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;�
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,�
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.�
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;�
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.�
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,�
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:�
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.�
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,�
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
THERE WILL BE 2 COMINGS OF JESUS ON THE SAME LAST DAY!!
Jude 14: "See the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of His holy ones to judge everyone!"
��� ��Revelation 1:7:� �Look, He is coming with the *CLOUDS*, and *EVERY EYE* will see Him, even those who pierced Him!� This 2nd Coming of Jesus with the *CLOUDS* is also mentioned in Matt 24:30 and I Thess 4:17 and in Matthew 26:64: Jesus replied, �But I say to all of you:� In the future you {Unsaved Jews at His trial} will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty one and coming on the *CLOUDS* of heaven!��
��
There will be 2 Comings of Jesus on the same Last Day.� The First Coming will be *FOR* His saints and His second Coming will be *WITH* His saints on Heavenly White Horses right after they celebrate the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. {Read Rev 19:7-9 & Rev 17:11,14} They will conquer 666 and his 10 armies {See Rev 19:19-21}. This then explains the resurrection of God's saints in Luke 17:30,35:
Jesus says, �It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is *REVEALED....two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.� All of the lost who are left behind when Jesus is *REVEALED; will later be judged and then sent to hell on that same Last Day. {See 2 Thess 1:6-10; John 5:28,29; 12:48; Daniel 12:1,2,7b & Matt 25:31-33;41-46} Pre-tribbers wrongly teach that Luke 17:30,35 above and Matt 24:40-41 prove a pre-trib rapture.
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers!! {See Jude 14 and 19:8,9,14}
������ Jesus {See Rev 1:10,18} said to John in Rev 1:19: �Write what you have seen, WHAT IS NOW {Rev chapters 2 & 3} and *WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE LATER*.� {Rev chapters 6-22}� Events that will occur on the Last Day are recorded in Rev 6:12-17; Rev 11:15-19; Rev 14:14-20; Rev 16:17-21; Rev 19:1-21 & Rev 20:9b-15.� Question: How many words in Revelation, chapters 6-22 are devoted to a rapture before the beginning of the Great Tribulation??� Answer: *ZERO*!!
In Rev 4:1 Jesus invited John to come up to Heaven in AD 96 so that he could write what he saw.� Rev 4:1b: Jesus said to John in AD 96, �Come up here, and I will show you *WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE.�� Unfortunately, there are some pre-tribbers who teach that Rev 4:1 actually proves a *CONCEALED* rapture of the church saints before the beginning of the Great Tribulation; which shows a *NEW LOW in honest Bible exegesis. How many words in the Olivet discourse are devoted to a rapture before the Great Tribulation?� Answer: *ZERO*!!
The Olivet discourse by Jesus about the End-Times are recorded in Matt 24 & 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21.� Events which will occur on the Last Day of the Tribulation including the 2nd Coming are recorded in Matt 24:29-31; Matt 25:31-46; Mark 13:24-27 & Luke 21:25-28.�
Rev 22:16,18,19: Jesus says, �I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give *YOU* {The Greek for YOU is plural} this testimony {ALL OF REVELATION} *FOR* the CHURCHES.� This contradicts the ridiculous pre-trib idea that Revelation, chapters 4-19, was not written *FOR* the CHURCHES! The word �CHURCH�is also not mentioned in 9 books of the NT: John, Mark, Luke, 2 Tim, 1 John, 2 John, 1 Peter, 2 Peter and Jude; and is not mentioned in the first 15 chapters of Romans and yet every word in all these NT books are �FOR THE CHURCHES�..... �I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book.� If anyone *ADDS anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.� And if anyone *TAKES WORDS AWAY from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in this book.�
I don't have a clan...unless, you're referring to my large family which is not on this site.
IWA, you wrote: "Sense in whose opinion? Is there an objective Biblical standard by which to measure this "sense"."
My response: since I wrote it, it would be in my opinion. And, no there is no Biblical guideline. But if I recall correctly, you have made remarks to others who have posted long lists of verses or a passage from another person's commentary, or their own commentary. It seems you have a set of double standards.
IWA also wrote: "Perhaps, she had reason for both posting the commentary and then following up by speaking about a specific verse. Things aren't always going to be done in the exact fashion that you believe they should be - especially when you are dealing with adults."
My response: obviously she has a reason as does everyone who posts on any of these threads. I wish I was dealing with adult-like behavior...the 1st thru 6th graders I deal with every week act more mature. And I have commented to all sides if you read my posts.
IWA also wrote: "Maybe you can publish a set of guidelines for how others should properly and "sensibly" respond to your posts. This would avoid any future misunderstanding,"
My response: I have posted guidelines from Romans 12...God is very clear on how we should deal with believers, unbelievers and false believers.
And, I still think it is fair to ask for the answer to my question. A statement was made and I am seeking clarification. Again, double standards are laid out since others have been asked questions and choose not to respond...so I am STILL waiting for her answer...
Ya know, the way I'm seeing this is that if Donna had began by making her point and focus of her thoughts on this post before copy pasting the commentary ( and she does tend to do that a lot) much of this contention would not be happening here. It seems more as if she had the gloves on and was looking to throw punches! I've been watching the past few weeks here and must say I'm ashamed, or for lack of a better description.. embarrassed for some of you in the way you setup then attack others when they respond to your posts here!
IWA zealous for sure but you my man I would not hesititate to smack were I to hear you speak to a woman face to face as you do here on this site. You are the not know all be all, nor judge of anyone's salvation or relationship with God... that's God's job! and he does it Well!
Donna same as above but the long copy/pastes are... well long but also interesting and worth talking about. But hey, if your are going to make a point then say it in your words, then back it up with the reference material. Lots less confusion that way doncha think?
so there... i either made some enemies or made some friends... apologies to anyone who may be offended by my speaking out here.
I remember this site and especially this section being the most interesting and amazing place to come read and join in with questions and learn together! Now it seems more like an MMA bashing contest... Something has to change here :yay:people!
"You are the not know all be all, nor judge of anyone's salvation or relationship with God... that's God's job! and he does it Well! "
Yet, lets look at this claim in the light of truth. Shall we?
The question was asked of me (more than once): "Do you think that Godsjude, or LTM, or TruthCarrier, or myself, is lost and reprobate simply because of the belief in free will? "
To which I answered: "" simply because of the belief in free will?" NO. However, Jesus told his followers that they WOULD KNOW THE TRUTH. In addition, one mark of the Elect is that they "believe the truth" and another is that they "love the truth". The Elect will worship God in spirit and in truth. Having said that, I believe what the Word of God teaches."
"Donna same as above but the long copy/pastes are... well long but also interesting and worth talking about. But hey, if your are going to make a point then say it in your words, then back it up with the reference material. Lots less confusion that way doncha think? "
Your opinion -- for whatever that's worth. However, I've also addressed this point here:
One point I will agree on bro, and for your satisfaction yes it is easy to say from here.... no apology nor would I back down... on the rest, all yours is a case built on words said and and twisting them to make you look good...pretty much your usual defense with everything, I'm not so educated as you but I've surely known guys like you and must say I don't have much respect in your ways.
Have your way bro but see it through the eyes God gave you, not by your own educated thinking! peace!
FYI, I barely paid attention in high school and lasted one semester in college before dropping out. So, you can hold me up as being in some lofty academic tower if you wish but the truth doesn't support that. I study the word day by day as a layman just like any other ordinary Joe.
A case built on words is what an online forum is designed for. I fail to see how anything is twisted other than your thinking. I've shown this to be the case. You've brought your bias and you've had your say. I've reexamined the thread and your case is a loser. The facts just simply don't support it.
Prov 18:6 A fool's lips bring strife, And his mouth calls for blows. :boxing:
