One of the many mistakes made by Calvinists is how they overlook the grammar of certain passages. In the case of Ephesians 1, a passage that deals with the issue of "Predestination", when we pay close attention to the personal pronouns we discover something that does not support the Calvinistic view of Predestination. What we find is that it is the nation of Israel that was "predestined", not Gentiles, not Christians. Notice in verse 3-12 Paul's exclusive use of "First Person Plural pronouns". This is significant and if you do not comprehend the grammar you will misinterpret this passage and it's proper application like Calvinists do.
Ephesians 1:
1 � Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 � Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed US with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose US in Him before the foundation of the world, that WE should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 HAVING PREDESTINED US to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made US accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him WE have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward US in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to US the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth��in Him.
11 In Him also WE have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 THAT WE WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST should be to the praise of His glory.
Now notice the change in the FIRST personal plural pronouns from we and us to SECOND person plural pronouns of "YOU" and "YOUR". This shows us that in the previous verses Paul was including himself among a group of people that were not Gentiles. There is a separation between these two groups. Verses 3-12 indicate that Paul is referring to the nation of Israel. Then below Paul addresses another group. The Gentiles.
13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED, after YOU heard the word of truth, the gospel of YOUR salvation; in whom also, having believed, YOU were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
15 � Therefore I also, after I heard of YOUR faith in the Lord Jesus and YOUR love for all the saints,
16 do not cease to give thanks for YOU, making mention of YOU in my prayers:
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
18 the eyes of YOUR understanding being enlightened; that YOU may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. NKJV
The simple conclusion is that this passage in no way supports Calvinism but actually proves them to be in serious error. It is the Nation of Israel that was "Predestined" not Gentiles.
For a thorough scholarly exegesis of this passage go here: http://www.pfrs.org/calvinism/eph1_3.html
When people say, "judge not lest ye be judge." I say, "twist not scriptures least ye be like Satan."
So what do you do with all the scripture that tell you to judge?
How are you to discern between false teach, heretical teaching and true teaching if you do not judge? How are we to fellowship with other believers if we do not judge their beliefs? No one here has passed judgment on anyone else. God "will" do the final judgment. Everyone every day judges things and people but you don't pass judgment as in condemnation on them.
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there is a big difference from judgement and discernment.
discernment comes from the holy spirit, judgement comes from your own unsecured heart and opinions.
there is a big difference from judgment and discernment
I so totally disagree with you. (Does that make me a bad person?) But let's go with it. Let's leave discernment a side right now, there still are verses in the Bible that tell us to judge not in condemnation but to judge rightly.
And are you not the one that says stop calling names? I am a big boy and names never bother me and besides Jesus pretty much warned us that we would be ridiculed and persecuted not that name calling falls under persecution but I don't expect many to agree with me so I am use to it. He also said "few" would find the narrow difficult way and "many" won't, and not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven. And what I have found so interesting from my own experiences and from listening to a radio station that promotes street preaching and street evangelism in one 2 one encounters is that the people that do the most heckling and name calling are the so called Christians (false converts). So is this comment your low blow for a lack of a better argument;
....judgement comes from your own unsecured heart and opinions.
I have a very secure heart in Christ and none of what I have said is opinion based it is from diligent study of Gods word something I highly recommend everyone to do. And to be honest honey what you have been calling judging really isn't judging it is called debating, you pick a topic and one person takes one side and another takes the other side and you disagree and present your case and if they say something you don't like you do come back with, "don't judge me". It is a great way to learn both sides of an issue. If all I did was look at my side and not challenge or be challenged by the other side then I would be the closed minded person that would be in big trouble when I stand before a holy God and His eyes are burning through me on the real judgment day!!!! So if ya have some real input instead of opinions and unsecured heart comments please present them other wise read, learn and enjoy a good debate.
Thank you. I appreciate your candor. When going through the various articles please consider this. Instead of trying to "refute them", just try doing a consistent exegesis and determine if they are correct.
Also consider this. When examining the various positions, take a good look at early history like the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One of the things I found very interesting is that when we look at the Early Church Fathers of the first 300 Years, what we cannot locate are any of the ideas or concepts of what we call Calvinism today. Not a single theological idea of it existed back then. However what we do find among the Early Church Fathers are all the concepts and ideas of what we call Arminian Theology today. Food for thought.
I STILL think it's funny when a human claims another human is misinterpreting the bible:ROFL:...but...it's a whole different thing to say "twist". Twisting the scripture is something a person with an evil intent would do. Misinterpreting scripture is something a HUMAN christian would do....there's no malicious disrespect to God's word for a misunderstanding or misinterpretation by someone that loves Him and is trying to follow Him. I still think it's a mild form of hypocrisy to claim someone has the truth and that someone else doesn't...when they both believe God's word backs them up. Presumption.
"I'm better then you are somehow. Even though we're all sinners that make mistakes, I know I have it right and you're wrong".
That's not a witness. That's a little bit of hypocrisy. Tell people about your beliefs without attacking them...that's the trick to an effective witness. Otherwise you're just driving them away from what you believe to be the truth...which makes it pretty pointless to witness. Have to remember...you aren't witnessing to a unsaved person that doesn't believe anything...you're witnessing to someone that already is a christian....
It is very important to understand the Grammar of any text or else one will come up with the wrong interpretation and application of the text which often Calvinists do. If you care to demonstrate where the exegesis is wrong I would be happy to examine it with you.
Christians are to follow Christ, not Calvin or Arminius, especially since BOTH Calvin and Arminius were very obviously flawed in their beliefs/doctrine. The Bible is our source of doctrine, not some little list that some imperfect person made up. We are NOT to follow persons other than Christ and we are NOT to add to what God's Word says. The Bible is God-breathed and texts outside of it, such as anything said/written by Calvin or Arminius, are not. I really think it's as simple as reading your Bible and believing that what it says is true... And if we're having trouble understanding our Bibles, than we ought to ask God for wisdom, not go running after the man-made ideas of Calvin, Arminius, or anyone else. (1 Corinthians 1:10-17)
The Bible says that we are predestined to be saved through Christ's work on the cross; what Christ did enables ALL mankind to have a relationship with God through Him. What Christ did for all is what predestines us... not some list. (Ephesians 1:4-14) We must repent and accept Christ's sacrifice as the sole, complete atonement for our sin. If you reject that, then you go to Hell; if you accept it, then you go to Heaven. It has nothing to do with being on some "A" list. If all that's required for someone to be saved is to be some "A" list, then Christ wouldn't have needed to be die.
